Mixing inks? Solvent + Ecosolvent

[MikePro]

Been thinking about this for a while, since Mimaki releasing Metallic inks to their Ecosolvent line. I know that Ecosolvent SHOULD run fine through my Solvent printer, but what I don't know is:

Is it possible to successfully print metallic ecosolvent ink through my K printhead while also using CMY solvent inks on the other 3?

OR, better yet, what could happen if I add metallic ecosolvent to CMYK solvent inks and printing per usual with a "metallic effect" in the color?

I haven't done any testing, yet, but will in the near future if necessary. I'm just trying to expand the production possibilities of my mimaki jv3, and metallic inks are definately something i'm interested in.... but NOT so interesting that I really want to switch my whole system over to ecosolvent.
i'm no chemist, but I've got a feeling that the mixture might not dry properly. or even worse, some sort of chemical warfare ensues within my printer and does more damage than a flush can resolve! hopefully someone can shed some light.

 

[Typestries]

Hi Mike, I'm sure the ink "chemists" will chuckle at this thread. I might suggest that you do some mixing in some pyrex ahead of time and heat that mixture to the temp that your heads print at. You will of course need a way to quantify the temp, maybe a digital IR thermomo. You may find a precipitation reaction takes place which would be potentially ugly for dampers and heads. Of course I could be wrong, but speak based on practical life lessons learned the hard way over 14 years of dealing with printers and our own formulation experiments.

 

[MikePro]

thanks for the reply! ya, there's definately no way i'm simply going to just throw a random mixture of chemicals through my expensive printheads unless there was some knowledge/experimentation behind it.
... or to assume that the mixture of eco/true solvent on the media during print would dry normally as if printed separate.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

instant glue.

 

[artbot]

if you get a good flush between black and silver, there shouldn't be a chemical issue. as for mixing pigment with the silver ink. ...don't do it. you get less optic fire from your color. the idea is to create a candy effect. metallic on bottom, transparent color on top.

one issue you might want to do testing for is wiper contamination. i've had solvent ink, uv ink, and water based ink all in my printer at the same time. and it would have worked if the stupid wiper didn't cross contaminate the set up. so i'd do some small scale testing of the two inks compatibility, such as do they coagulate, cause more rapid drying than alone, etc.

keep us posted on your results. also, figure out if the roland silver or mimaki silver is better. i hope to take apart the purple giant soon and get that on carriage mini cartridge set up going. that way i can feed almond, silver, any custom mixed ink right into the channel and very quickly switch back. in the end i'd like to get a jv33 set up as a monochrome printer using the dx5 in a similar way that the jv5 prints one color from the head. i do more monochrome passes then color by about 5:1. the speed would be nuts.

 

[Rooster]

Since the metallic inks have been approved for use by Epson in their heads, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the metallic inks from Roland or Mimaki will be the exact same product. I can't see both manufacturers developing separate metallic inks.

If the metallic inks for these digital printers are anything at all like the metallic inks for offset then expect to see a painfully slow dry time.

 

[MikePro]

owow, i didn't even think about the wiper! do you just simply remove it while doing something like this?

artbot: so by metallic on bottom and color on top, do you mean it will be necessary to feed the same media through multiple phases of print, like essentially using the printer as a modified screenprinting process?
oooor is it simply in the nature of the print, especially in single-pass, that the K channel fires first and whatever CMYcolor is also designated to fire on the spot gets immediately laid on top of the metallic?

 

[artbot]

yeah, send it through twice.... most my pieces require four passes sometimes five if i'm showing off. you'll need standardized guides. i have for feed, two small nails that i seat in the vent holes of the platen (they have long mini-flags attached to remind me to remove them before printing). also i have perfectly squared guides on the front and back of the printer for flat stock (it's all flat stock over here, never roll media).

it will be much faster to just print silver like crazy, let it dry, maybe even put a coat of cab lacquer to precoat for color. then do all your color at once. and don't forget trapping! any "open" spaces with silver under in your color print will be pure silver (opaque color, pure silver, pure white/paper, metallic color).

but that said, for candy/mettallic/opaque.... you can just as well print on metallic media and use the white in a "reverse trap" thus leaving the base as your metallic. the only issue with this is solvent white ink isn't opaque as desired. i have a completely opaque ink that i use in my printer but i can't reveal it's formula. that one just cost me too much r&d/$/marriage/bankruptcy/etc.

 

[MikePro]

don't the pinch rollers contaminate your print on secondary feeds?
even after letting unlaminated stuff dry for days, i still get lines in my prints from my plotter when i go to contour cut. granted, when I print without lamination, its usually for projects i don't care too much about anyways.

 

[artbot]

depends, i'm usually printing on a fresh coat of gloss cab lacquer. but generally speaking, bone dry ink (of course i'm speaking for metal and wood veneer that doesn't compress) doesn't show tracks.

 

[Edwin Mukiria]

Artbot.
Sounds great!
Could you post pictures of some of the work you've done, if you don't mind?
How much do you charge for this stuff?
Edwin.

 

[Edwin Mukiria]

Artbot.
Sounds great!
Could you post pictures of some of the work you've done, if you don't mind?
How much do you charge for this stuff?
Edwin.

 

[artbot]

here's a slide show of some installs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157625996878187/show/


and here's my projects queue.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/

 

[Edwin Mukiria]

Artbot,
You've done some really good work!