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More Big Squeegee questions...

Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
OK...I did a search and couldn't find anything about this related to the BS. Hoping that someone can help me.

Starting to get the hang of laying down large prints with the BS (just did a 4'x10'...YAY!!).

So, here's the problem. I laid down two 4'x8' prints on Friday. There were a couple of small bubbles at the start of the print, and another decent few at the end. Got those squeegeed out and everything looked great.

Put the signs off the table and went home for the weekend. Came back in this morning and there were MASSIVE bubbles, EVERYWHERE on both signs.

Any idea what the deal is there?


Gary
 
Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
Here's a pic. This is just a small section (14"x14" or so). These types of bubbles are all over the signs.

These are Briteline intermediate with gray adhesive and Oracal 210 Lam.

Prints sat for 12 hours before lamination and another 12-14 before application.

Substrate is 6mil polymetal.


Gary
 

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The Big Squeegee

The Big Squeegee

Long Time Member
There are many variables involved with air bubbles. Since it looked good when it was first mounted, the problem is most likely from out gassing or trapped moisture.

More information is needed to help pin point the problem. It is hard to tell from the picture if the bubbles are under the laminate or under the laminated vinyl. The Big Squeegee mounts the graphics dry so out gassing of some sort is most likely the culprit.
 
TheSnowman

TheSnowman

New Member
I've had that a couple times when I didn't realize that the bubbles were really there. It looked smooth, but I didn't have even pressure to the outside, and there were bubbles that I couldn't see until I'd squeegeed out the rest of the board. Air Egress vinyl will help w/ this too...but that's a no brainer.
 
Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
Vinyl is off a roll that I got from Grimco about 9 days ago - so not old.

On the pressure issue, It was my understanding that you aren't SUPPOSED to apply downward pressure with the BS?


Gary
 
The Big Squeegee

The Big Squeegee

Long Time Member
A couple of things come to mind.

The squeegee may not have the back side raised up high enough to apply enough pressure.

If the backing is pulled off as you apply the graphic, do not pull upwards as this will reduce the downward pressure and allow air to get trapped under the vinyl.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
outgassing makes most sense to me, but what is "brightline"? a substrate? so not a freshly painted substrate?


and you are absolutel sure the bubbles weren't there? sounds like you are... just checking...


I've mounted dozens of large prints... never had that...
 
Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
Briteline is Grimco's "house brand" digital media. I believe it is made by Arlon.

Absolutely sure on the bubbles. I will try using a steeper angle and not pulling the backing paper up.

Gary
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
If that's outgassing, that's by far the worst outgassing I've ever seen. Anyway, the substrate is polymetal which I believe is a baked-on-enamel finish. If so, then outgassing doesn't even enter the equation.

To me... it looks like the wrong pressure and angle was used when using the tool. I've seen prints in our shop that weren't pressed down hard enough, but still looked alright. We usually look at the print a few minutes later to make sure we had good contact, look for any obvious bubbles and then re-squeegee by hand with a soft squeegee. If this is let go til the next day.... small bubbles and trapped air will gravitate towards the weakest areas and form larger bubbles. After doing this stuff for 25 some plus years with vinyl, you tend to see it all.

There's no way the Big Squeegee can equal the pressure a laminator will give you, so, you have to be more cautious and remember to expect some short comings... especially if you aren't doing it quite right.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
It's not outgassing and I had the exact same thing happen to me on Thursday last week when I mounted 3ml 4'x8' to 6mm pvc. It is the pressure on the squeegee that causes it and unlike regular bubbles these are in a mass that shows they never had any pressure on them. If you use a soft squeegee in those areas and go back and forth vigourously you will see most of them will go away and adhere properly. You will of course have to go through it and use the glare of the overhead lights to find the bubbles left over.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
Gino said:
If that's outgassing, that's by far the worst outgassing I've ever seen. Anyway, the substrate is polymetal which I believe is a baked-on-enamel finish. If so, then outgassing doesn't even enter the equation.

To me... it looks like the wrong pressure and angle was used when using the tool. I've seen prints in our shop that weren't pressed down hard enough, but still looked alright. We usually look at the print a few minutes later to make sure we had good contact, look for any obvious bubbles and then re-squeegee by hand with a soft squeegee. If this is let go til the next day.... small bubbles and trapped air will gravitate towards the weakest areas and form larger bubbles. After doing this stuff for 25 some plus years with vinyl, you tend to see it all.

There's no way the Big Squeegee can equal the pressure a laminator will give you, so, you have to be more cautious and remember to expect some short comings... especially if you aren't doing it quite right.
Click to expand...


Gino is correct and with increasing use you will find these problems go away.
 
Circleville Signs

Circleville Signs

New Member
Gino said:
If that's outgassing, that's by far the worst outgassing I've ever seen. Anyway, the substrate is polymetal which I believe is a baked-on-enamel finish. If so, then outgassing doesn't even enter the equation.

To me... it looks like the wrong pressure and angle was used when using the tool. I've seen prints in our shop that weren't pressed down hard enough, but still looked alright. We usually look at the print a few minutes later to make sure we had good contact, look for any obvious bubbles and then re-squeegee by hand with a soft squeegee. If this is let go til the next day.... small bubbles and trapped air will gravitate towards the weakest areas and form larger bubbles. After doing this stuff for 25 some plus years with vinyl, you tend to see it all.

There's no way the Big Squeegee can equal the pressure a laminator will give you, so, you have to be more cautious and remember to expect some short comings... especially if you aren't doing it quite right.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the help all! I was pretty sure it was user error, but hey - I figured I'd ask :)

Getting the hang of the BS is something that I hope will be worth it in the long run. Right now it's taking me about 2x longer than just a nice wet app because I'm having to go back and knock out all these bubbles. That being said, if I CAN get the hang of it, it will reduce my production time significantly.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the backing paper from catching when you are using the BS? Right now it's a 2 man job to lay a 4'x8' print.


Gary
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
This time of year, the easiest thing is to have a spotter hold the backing off the substrate so you relieve the static the air is holding. We'll do it one-man up to a 4' x 6'. Otherwise, we're taking a chance.

After properly aligning the edge of your print to one end of the substrate, it takes about 1 to 2 minutes to mount the print and unless you really screwed it up.... maybe two or three minutes more to get the bubbles out. Once you really get the knack, it still take a minute or two to get the print on, but generally no afterwards squeegeeing is necessary, but we still check later.
 
TheSnowman

TheSnowman

New Member
Dale has some picture on it. You can tape the liner to another roll w/ double sided tape I believe...but me, I just lay it out on the floor, and put it up against the wall to hold it in place. Then I stretch out far as I can (make sure you don't have anything on you that will scratch the print) and I can usually get 3/4 of the way done w/ it. Then, I pick up the liner, and it gives me enough to keep going.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
Sometimes the liner will shoot out ahead of you, and then it sort of slows down and forces you to grow a 3rd arm. lol
 
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