Need Help Mutoh ValueJet 1614 print colors skewed

[Henry Noethe]

I'm trying to get a "new" used Mutoh ValueJet 1614A setup and printing. I'm using Flexi8 and have gotten things most of the way working. BUT, the colors are off and no amount of profile adjustment or fussing with software settings seems to have any impact.

Here's an example file I set up in Flexi - an image and some solid fills of Pantone C, M, Y, K, green and purple

And here's a photo of it's output taken with my phone. I know photos/monitors/etc can shift one way or the other, but basically, the cyan block is pretty dark for cyan, the magenta block looks more like red and the purple block looks more like magenta

Is there something I'm missing? Is this a software issue or a hardware issue? How do I tell?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer!

 

[FatCat]

If you're new to printing realize there is a LOT to learn and know in order to understand how to get good colors and consistent output. I've been working in prepress and digital printing for over 20 years and I still am learning...below are some thoughts that are just the tip of the iceberg...

First off, lets talk about the physical properties of the printer that can affect output...
1. What does your nozzle check look like? Do you see any signs of cross contamination?
2. Are all nozzles firing? (It's OK if you're missing a few here or there, but if you're missing more than 10% of any color it will also affect output color)
3. Are you using OEM ink or aftermarket ink?
4. What type of material are you printing on? Have you tried different materials? (Materials can GREATLY affect how colors look)

NEXT, files/software/output issues
1. You say you are printing from Flexi, did you also set up these files from Flexi, or are you importing from something else?
2. How are you calibrating your monitor and what ICC profiles are you using?
3. Are your print files setup for CMYK or RGB output?
4. What profile are you using? Have you tried other profiles? What happens when you do?

 

[FatCat]

And BTW - after looking at your pics I notice the Black, Cyan, Yellow and Green all look pretty close, but your purple and magenta are off. This leads me to believe you have an issue with the magenta channel not printing with all nozzles firing -OR- you have an issue with your file/profile in that color...

 

[Henry Noethe]

If you're new to printing realize there is a LOT to learn and know in order to understand how to get good colors and consistent output. I've been working in prepress and digital printing for over 20 years and I still am learning...below are some thoughts that are just the tip of the iceberg...

First off, lets talk about the physical properties of the printer that can affect output...
1. What does your nozzle check look like? Do you see any signs of cross contamination?
2. Are all nozzles firing? (It's OK if you're missing a few here or there, but if you're missing more than 10% of any color it will also affect output color)
3. Are you using OEM ink or aftermarket ink?
4. What type of material are you printing on? Have you tried different materials? (Materials can GREATLY affect how colors look)

NEXT, files/software/output issues
1. You say you are printing from Flexi, did you also set up these files from Flexi, or are you importing from something else?
2. How are you calibrating your monitor and what ICC profiles are you using?
3. Are your print files setup for CMYK or RGB output?
4. What profile are you using? Have you tried other profiles? What happens when you do?

Thanks so much for your reply - I've been in the printing industry for many years, but don't have a whole lot of wide format experience.

To answer your questions:

1/2. Nozzle check looks good - all colors look true and most print flawlessly (the exception is the left section of cyan - it's a bit broken up at top). I tried to take a photo of the nozzle check print, but the lines are so light that my camera was having trouble focusing on them.
3. Most colors are aftermarket at the moment (I swapped out the magenta to OEM when I saw that the magenta swatch was printing off to see if it made a difference - I didn't see a change). I have several OEM ink cartridges that came with the printer that I could swap in if it makes a difference.
4. I'm printing on MetroMark white vinyl (it was given to me by someone who tried to troubleshoot the printer as they didn't need/want it). No, I haven't tried any other materials.

1. I set the files up in Flexi - imported the photo and made the color swatches with the rectangle tool and applied the Pantone colors to them.
2. Monitor isn't calibrated. What specifically do you mean when you say ICC profiles? I took some screen caps of the color settings, hopefully this is what you mean.

3. The imported image is RGB - The print file is set up in Flexi - I didn't specify one or the other, so I can't say for sure. After you asked, it occurred to me to specify CMYK values for my swatch spots and go with that - eliminating spot colors, etc. So, now I'm printing/attaching a version with swatches in 100%black/rich black 30.30.30.100 and 100 cyan, 100 magenta, 100 yellow, a green made up of 100c 100y, and a purple made up of 50c 100m. Those colors came out much more the way I'd expect, so I'm definitely thinking this is an image/spot color matching/profile issue. Then, I also saved the image file in CMYK. There was a negative effect on the color when printing the image in CMYK - the blanket came out even more muted than before. The photo below shows the swatch change on both, RGB image at bottom, CMYK at top.

4. I tried a few profiles via the display settings page, last option. I didn't see any noticeable change. If that's not the right place to change that setting, please point me in the right direction - I don't have a manual for the printer that includes any kind of color matching info.

Thanks again for your help - I feel like maybe there's a light at the end of this tunnel that isn't a train!

 

[FatCat]

I'll be honest, we don't use Flexi here - so I probably won't be of much help with actual application support or tips on how to tweak it...

Disregard what I said about ICC profiles - that's more a factor if you're setting up files in actual print software like Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator...it could have some impact on Flexi, but again, not a Flexi guy so take that with a grain of salt...

After seeing your samples and screen shots, here are some more thoughts;

1. You shouldn't need to print at 1440 x 1440 - I've had Mutoh printers since 2009 and owned a 1204, 1304, 1604, 1624 and 1624x and never needed to run that resolution. Keep at a 720 x 720 profile and that is all the higher you should need to go for good output. Also, making sure your printhead is firing correctly is paramount to good output. Like I said, missing a few nozzles in each channel isn't going to cause a huge issue but if you're missing something like a dozen or more it really will have a huge impact on high quality prints and can throw your colors off. AGAIN - I notice specifically that your magenta and purple swatch are printing weak, and the rest seem OK...seems strange but if you don't have missing nozzles in the magenta channels then maybe this isn't the cause.. (Black looks good, cyan looks good, yellow looks good and green (cyan/yellow) look good. But magenta is weak and purple (cyan/magenta) are weak...seems like magenta isn't putting down enough ink...or something...?

2. Are you using the correct profile within Flexi for a Mutoh 1614, or are you using a generic profile? (the 1614 is a slightly different animal than the 1204/1304/1604)

3. Also, when you say you're using 3rd party inks, which are you using? We have been using JetBest here with good results for years and is the only ink I feel comfortable using with Mutoh printers. We run it because it doesn't change the color profiles from the OEM inks. Other inks can throw your colors off, or require you to custom profile in order to make your RIP print correct colors. *If you have OEM ink, it might be worth a try to switch but... realize that simply switching back to OEM cartridges in the machine won't change the colors immediately. I believe the sub tanks alone hold about 100-200ml of ink each, plus figure about another 80-100ml in each of the lines, so you'll basically need to purge about 1/2 of a 440ml cartridge worth of ink to get the OEM ink into your head to see if its the culprit...

4. However, I think you also might be on the right track with tweaking your settings in your file RGB vs CMYK - you will get drastically different results depending on that alone.

5. The other thing could be the material and making sure you are using a compatible profile. Certain materials tend to dull or mute colors, especially matte materials, even when using a correct profile. However, even worse if you don't know how the material reacts with certain profiles your colors can be all over the place. So you could be using too much heat, not enough heat, etc...


I don't know the whole thing seems strange to me especially since your other colors seem to be printing fine...just a lot of variables and "could-be" this or that...

Sorry I don't have more definite answers for you...

 

[ECU424]

Do you have color correction turned on? I have had that turn off before and it really messes color up.

 

[Desert Sands]

Old thread and no answer? Well, we are going through the same thing, XpertJet 1682SR (7 Color) and it's progressing at a worse scenario on every print. We've been using one or two ICC profiles since we got the machine 8 years ago. So for sure that's not the problem. The file? That prints out great on our other machine (1628X) so no, it's not the file. We're ripping these files through Flexi Print Manager. The photo below shows what's coming out the 1682SR vs the 1628X. One is not like the other, so we're now thinking it could possibly be a driver issue. The Windows PC here did just get an update last week. We have a technician coming in next week so we will see,

 

[Desert Sands]

Reinstalling the printer to the Flexi Print Manager was the FIX.