My first signage machine - what do i choose, help and advice needed.

[john maughan]

I am looking to bring in a new 54 inch wide format machine that will cover most of the things we have done in the past, roller banners, posters etc but also we want to add signage capability.

At the minute we outsource all our outdoor graphics but we have got to the point were we need to bring it inhouse. Its one machine out to bring another in, so an old faithful HP5500 is going and I have already looked at a HP Latex 315 print and cut solution which looks just the job if I am honest. My only concern is having to find room for the cutter (which we can do with a bit of a shift around) and the fact the high quality test file was no more than good as opposed to stunning (the old HP 5500 is just as good quality wise) plus I have read a few negative things on forums such as this.

The fast drying time and front loading is an appeal on the HP and the integrated cutter and white ink appeals on the eco sol machines.

My question is whats my best option to choose:

Roland TrueVIS VG-540 with the 7-colour plus White (CMYKLcLmLk+W) setup

Mimaki CJV300

HP Latex 315 print and cut with Hp flexi sign


Or do I Save up and spend a bit more for Better/UV technology

Roland VersaUV LEC Series UV Printer/Cutters

Mimaki UCJV

Epson SureColor S80600

 

[Gino]

Go to sign shows with files in hand and start making comparisons. Only you can figure out what's best for your setup.

 

[GAC05]

If this is your first outdoor keep it simple to get to know the ropes.
1. Latex looks good if you have HP support within driving distance from your shop.
It is not as easy as a eco sol printer to troubleshoot when things go wrong.
2. Print and cut combo - NO - you can get more done with a separate cutter and there are less things to go wrong with your printer.
3. White ink - nope - have not read of anyone here who has used it on a roll to roll that would recommend it.
4. CYMK +LcLmLk+W+LGBT - No - keep it simple with CYMK or dual CYMK if you need the print speed or have a high end national chain or museum client base that would require the additional color channels. You can get excellent quality prints out of a 4 color printer.
5. Don't know much about UV printing but it does not appear popular for a shop's first (or only) printer.
6. Make sure the one you choose has solid support close at hand. Takes time & experience to know when something is the printer system's fault or it's the guy pushing the buttons.
7. You'll need a laminator and space to use it if you are going to do signs expected to last.
Gino's advice to hit one of the sign shows is spot on - good luck with your purchase

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Gene@mpls]

I have always wondered about the HP latex and it's loading, we print mostly 2 different medias but have about 20 on the wall and need to switch out often. I have an RF650 with the main film on its normal spindle setup, have two rolls under it on ballbearing ends to cover the secondary films and a pair of full width rollers from an old printer so that we can switch out easily [this and the lower rolls feed over the normal roll holder and track very well]. Will be switching in a new RF after my vaca in the Fl Keys- the rear of the machine will not be changed but the custom takeup and IR dryer will be tinkered with.

 

[Broome Signs]

Hi we run the Roland VG 640

(CMYKLcLmLk+W)



Can defiantly recommend it

The white is a really good option if you produce a lot of window films

But be warned if you don’t think you will use the white ink go cmyk cmyk as you need to run the white head at least once a week to keep the head firing nicely

You will also need a laminator to go with your printer


Depending on your budget you can go UV

No need to laminate with this option

Roll to roll or flat bed?

We run flat beds as well and if you go with the optional roll to roll you will get the best of both worlds, although you will need a separate cutter

Something like a Graphtec if you want to contour cut the prints

The main advantage of direct to media is the fact you don’t have to pay out for PVC and laminate when producing sign boards



Good luck with your quest

 

[Raum Divarco]

Are you looking for something more of a lateral move or are you looking to invest more towards potential tomorrows needs?

 

[john maughan]

Go to sign shows with files in hand and start making comparisons. Only you can figure out what's best for your setup.

I've checked nothing immediate in the UK. I have been in the past and like the Roland 540 but when i had my test files printed I immediately realised the drying time was no good so I didn't buy the machine. I've been watching the latex market emerge and it looks like the machine for me so I have had the demo etc. It's only the fact a Roland dealer has mentioned the Versa works machine has the benefit of the print being dry 10inchs after coming of the print head. How true this is I'm not sure, but if I'm going to buy one I would get a demo.

I have some Demo prints arriving this week and some quotes.

 

[john maughan]

If this is your first outdoor keep it simple to get to know the ropes.
1. Latex looks good if you have HP support within driving distance from your shop.
It is not as easy as a eco sol printer to troubleshoot when things go wrong.
2. Print and cut combo - NO - you can get more done with a separate cutter and there are less things to go wrong with your printer.
3. White ink - nope - have not read of anyone here who has used it on a roll to roll that would recommend it.
4. CYMK +LcLmLk+W+LGBT - No - keep it simple with CYMK or dual CYMK if you need the print speed or have a high end national chain or museum client base that would require the additional color channels. You can get excellent quality prints out of a 4 color printer.
5. Don't know much about UV printing but it does not appear popular for a shop's first (or only) printer.
6. Make sure the one you choose has solid support close at hand. Takes time & experience to know when something is the printer system's fault or it's the guy pushing the buttons.
7. You'll need a laminator and space to use it if you are going to do signs expected to last.
Gino's advice to hit one of the sign shows is spot on - good luck with your purchase

wayne k
guam usa

Very good advise, I'm an ex Canon Tech so know how to look after the machine (I've been servicing my two hp5500's for 7/8 years but I will still check up on the service as I dont want the business relying my old bone to fix everything. I've been using a 24-inch cold desk laminator for a few years and I will be looking to upgrade that.

 

[HubcityNek]

64" Roland XR 640, Really nice array of color, clear images, and easy to understand free software. Ours is a few years old, but still works just the same. Maintenance is so easy too, only needed once a week, twice a week if in high production. It is a print cut machine as well, so it's helpful if you don't already have a plotter or will eventually buy one and use the two in conjunction for production. Super simple and easy to comprehend, great for beginning.

 

[HubcityNek]

One other thing- do not buy any printer with trueVIS currently. Either wait until they get certification, or deal with inconsistant colors. We had a Roland VG that we finally had our supplier return to Roland after having thousands of dollars of help from techs trying to help us. We come to find out its the inks, not us or the artwork. The PMS colors do not come out right at all and never match what they're supposed to. We have some very picky clients and having this as your only printer might lose a few clients.

 

[Solventinkjet]

I'm an ex Canon Tech so know how to look after the machine (I've been servicing my two hp5500's for 7/8 years but I will still check up on the service as I dont want the business relying my old bone to fix everything.

Just keep in mind the solvent world is a little different to maintain than the Cannons and Older HPs. Mainly that the ink does not play well with aqueous or alcohol based cleaners and the maintenance parts are much more robust to prevent melting. Other than that you will probably see a lot of similarities.

Also, light colors are almost always a meaningless option in the sign world. It slows you down, cost more in ink in the long run, and is virtually undetectable. If you go with white it makes you get some light colors to fill in empty channels but if you c an go CMYKx2 you will be much happier.

 

[john maughan]

Are you looking for something more of a lateral move or are you looking to invest more towards potential tomorrows needs?

 

[john maughan]

Its an upgrade of an old HP Designjet 5500 but the latex should give us a bit more in the way of signage and stickers plus window graphics

 

[BigfishDM]

Its an upgrade of an old HP Designjet 5500 but the latex should give us a bit more in the way of signage and stickers plus window graphics

Latex all day! Especially if you are a 5500 user. (love those machines!) I can say with ease that Latex would be the best solution for what you are doing. Plus the environmentally friendly factor in your neck of the woods is pretty significant isn't it? You can service that market very well with Latex, UV inks are still super gnarly and is like alien blood if it leaks out anywhere!

 

[john maughan]

Latex all day! Especially if you are a 5500 user. (love those machines!) I can say with ease that Latex would be the best solution for what you are doing. Plus the environmentally friendly factor in your neck of the woods is pretty significant isn't it? You can service that market very well with Latex, UV inks are still super gnarly and is like alien blood if it leaks out anywhere!

ALIEN BLOOD HA HA - 93% there.

 

[klingsdesigns]

Our vg has the inks dry enough to touch once it comes off the platen.

 

[john maughan]

As good as the Rolands and Mimakis are Ive decided on the HP Latex and separate cutter. Looking forward to getting it installed and reporting back how we get on with it.

 

[Jb1983]

I think you made the right choice! I would have suggested the hp latex 315 combo. The separate cutter absolutely without a doubt is more accurate and better in every way compared with any all in one unit.

There are a few things I prefer the eco solvent for but not much. Print quality honestly the latex may not be as vibrant as eco solvent but banding is basically non existent with latex and maintenance is almost zero compared to eco solvent.

Roland True vis , stay away.

 

[john maughan]

I had Roland chap really trying to push the True Vis but thank god you can gage a lot form real users on forums and i avoided it.

 

[BALLPARK]

HP Latex 365 + Summa S2 Cutter is a good combo for us.

Easy to profile new media on the HP Latex machines. All machines have pros and cons... We print full rolls on the latex and forget it's even running. I was a huge Roland supporter leading up the the XC-540. But then they just fell short in my eyes on advancing their tech. The price of the HP series means you can upgrade every 3 years or so and still be around the price range of the competing solvent printers.

The print quality is very impressive and I have high standards for our prints. Good luck...