Need help fast!

[Paul Nadeau]

Hello everyone. I am new to this site so I hope no one is offended by me posting in a wrong area or something like that but I need to get this sign out. So this is my first full carve and paint sign. It is white cedar and the painted areas are all raised the rest of the sign will be natural. Because I was nervous about paint running down over the edges of the smaller letters I designed a natural wood border around the black letters and then used a mask Oramask 810 but it would not stick to barewood. I couldn't prime because all the primer I found were colored and I'm trying to maintain natural wood look. So I polyurethaned the whole sign 2 coats then used a mask and applied Zinser 123 Bullseye primer to the areas I was going to paint. I let it dry an hour and did a 2nd coat. I let this dry 4 hours then painted black with California paint. I let this dry overnight and this morning when I pulled the mask off the paint just peeled right off. So my questions are is there a clear primer that you guys use that would allow my mask to stick to it and how long do you guys let paint dry before removing mask. Is completely dry too long? Is my process wrong? Thank you for your help.

 

[Stacey K]

I see nobody answered this so I'll take a stab. I used to make those decorative wood signs using the same paint mask on pine wood. It rarely sticks completely to the wood. If I had an intricate design, I sprayed from a spray can a light coat of clear coat and let it dry good. No matter what, I found that I usually needed to use a small paint brush to clean up the edges and also a small razor knife to remove any bleeds. With the paint mask you need to use a foam brush and dab in several light coats or it will bleed. I ALWAYS pulled the stencil mask off right after painting or the paint dries to the stencil mask and pulls the paint off, just like what happened to you. Hope this helps a little bit. You could try using an actual intermediate vinyl, it will stick a little better but I never found it to seal the edges well enough to create a perfect painted stencil.

I'm not sure how people paint these types of signs you are making, I would assume with a brush and enamel paint?

 

[Sindex Printing]

The couple signs I have done I have plotted wrap vinyl or substance 440 to use as a paint mask with good results. After applying the vinyl I heated the vinyl using a heat gun and used a wrap glove to ensure the edges we down. I got really good results for the masking. For the painting of the wood I used hotshot paints and the seem have good coverage and stuck really good. Hope it helps

 

[visual800]

when doing routed stuff i paint raised parts with a foam roller thats been cut down to 2" and "dab" the raised parts. Do not overload the foam 2 clean coats better than 1 heavy or you will get runs. I do not use OneShot or oil based on anything always use latex. Latex is going to be more flexible than oil based and one shot sucks, it has no life outside

 

[Gino]

First, you need to use clear heart wood. Those knots look terrible. The idea behind a hand carved or cnc'd carved sign is to show off the beauty of the wood. If you're gonna paint outlines around everything, just use pvc or some other cheap substrate. Therefore, no outlines are needed on a cedar or redwood piece. If you want to do something the way you're doing it, you're gonna hafta to hand paint those areas after using a foam roller to do your background colors. If you stink at hand painting, sub it out. That thing should be sanded down, resealed and use a paper frisket. Frisket has lotsa sticking power and gives 100% clean edges. Like mentioned, never let your pattern have dried paint on it.

 

[Paul Nadeau]

Thank you all for your advice and input. While I was waiting for some advice, I did sand it down to bare wood and I tried the app to see how it was sticking and it stuck great. I sanded to 120grit then cut my mask and stuck it in place. I did apply 2 coats of bullseye primer last night and it was dry this morning. When I read that you always peel wet I was concerned but also confused about how you would apply 2 coats of primer and let it dry before painting without moving the stencil. So I decided to put on a coat of black California Larcaloid Paint and peeled within 10 minutes. I was so happy with the results. Now the area around the lettering is going to be the only bare wood once I am done. I'm just going to put a final coat of poly over everything when it dries for 48hrs. Does anyone see any issues with that? And Gino I completely hear you on the heartwood. White Cedar is extremely knotty. I asked the customer before I started if they minded knots as long as they were solid and they said no. So I have 1 knot that is not solid and will not be painted over and it definitely doesn't make me happy.

 

[Paul Nadeau]

First, you need to use clear heart wood. Those knots look terrible. The idea behind a hand carved or cnc'd carved sign is to show off the beauty of the wood. If you're gonna paint outlines around everything, just use pvc or some other cheap substrate. Therefore, no outlines are needed on a cedar or redwood piece. If you want to do something the way you're doing it, you're gonna hafta to hand paint those areas after using a foam roller to do your background colors. If you stink at hand painting, sub it out. That thing should be sanded down, resealed and use a paper frisket. Frisket has lotsa sticking power and gives 100% clean edges. Like mentioned, never let your pattern have dried paint on it.

I'm not sure what you mean by paint outlines around everything it will only have black letters with natural borders. I'm sure this was not needed but I was worried about chip out on small letters and paint running over the edges. I though using the mask and leaving a little meat would make it easier without costing visually. I will look into frisket but the oramask 810 did great. I think sanding off the poly probably sealed a lot of the pores but I was able to lift

 

[Paul Nadeau]

I'm not sure what you mean by paint outlines around everything it will only have black letters with natural borders. I'm sure this was not needed but I was worried about chip out on small letters and paint running over the edges. I though using the mask and leaving a little meat would make it easier without costing visually. I will look into frisket but the oramask 810 did great. I think sanding off the poly probably sealed a lot of the pores but I was able to lift

Also when you say resealed that was one of my questions. What do you seal with that you can paint over?

 

[Gino]

A good wood sealer does several things. It is the first thing you put on your raw wood after sanding and you're happy with your results. It goes on clear/transparent and will show the beauty of the wood, but it also seals up all the grains, pours and any imperfections against any water from being absorbed. You put on one generous coat, let it dry thoroughly for 24 to 48 hours, according to your drying conditions, then do a second coat. Now, you can prime and add whatever topcoats you want in latex or oils.

Your white outlines around the letters for my 'likes' looks wrong and very amateurish. The original didn't have it. You added it for some reason to make things easier, but now they look silly. Anyway, the letter alone, without the outline, unless part of a logo would hold up on it's own, if choosing the correct colors.

Frisket is the thing to use. It never lifts any wood, like vinyls can do. Your worrying about chips or seepage are only due to lack of knowledge and wrong materials.

When sanding things down, you didn't seal anything. If anything at all, you opened more grains and pores, but when you did this, that would've been the time to seal it with the proper sealant. Minwax, Varathane polyurethane work great.

 

[Billct2]

I would clear the whole thing with 2 part marine varnish and let dry. Then mask & paint. Probably wouldn't need a primer if done this way. But if you did need primer the way I handle it is to cut the mask with a slight outline, like a 1/16". After priming you peel this outline and you still have a mask for the letters. The difference in the coverage on that outline is usually not noticeable.

 

[Paul Nadeau]

A good wood sealer does several things. It is the first thing you put on your raw wood after sanding and you're happy with your results. It goes on clear/transparent and will show the beauty of the wood, but it also seals up all the grains, pours and any imperfections against any water from being absorbed. You put on one generous coat, let it dry thoroughly for 24 to 48 hours, according to your drying conditions, then do a second coat. Now, you can prime and add whatever topcoats you want in latex or oils.

Your white outlines around the letters for my 'likes' looks wrong and very amateurish. The original didn't have it. You added it for some reason to make things easier, but now they look silly. Anyway, the letter alone, without the outline, unless part of a logo would hold up on it's own, if choosing the correct colors.

Frisket is the thing to use. It never lifts any wood, like vinyls can do. Your worrying about chips or seepage are only due to lack of knowledge and wrong materials.

When sanding things down, you didn't seal anything. If anything at all, you opened more grains and pores, but when you did this, that would've been the time to seal it with the proper sealant. Minwax, Varathane polyurethane work great.

You might be seeing bare wood vs the urethaned finish because there is no white. So I orginally did the whole thing in polyurethane then primed the areas I was going to paint but I let it dry on the mask and when I went to peel it, the black just pulled right off of the primer. Here is what I used for poly primer and paint. Poly I did 2 coats and let dry for a day and a half then masked and primed. Let primer dry for 1 hour 2 coats then over night for the 2nd coat then painted 1 coat of the black and let it dry overnight. Then when I pulled the mask it came right off the primer and I assumed I used wrong material. And yes the border was definitely to make up for my lack or experience, but it is not painted