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Need help finding any printer, that uses dye based inks (water soluble)
- Thread starter dreko
- Start date
dreko
New Member
Glass cleaner, as in Windex or Invisible Glass? Hmmm... I'll have to try.
if you are trying to add some water to a print and have it run like water-colors, then you may want to look at a Canon prograf - last one I had was 8300. They use the aqueous inks, but most substrate has a hydrophillic coating to help quickly lock the pigment to the sheet. We had some prints on engineering bond - close to plain 20# bond paper - that we then got wet and it would have a chromatography effect where the ink runs with the water... you may want to take a few sample media to a Canon dealer and get some test prints to see if this will work for you.
if you haven't checked them, I still recommend it.... or post a sample of what you are trying to do so we can see. The Canon printed on non-aqueous receptive paper and them dampened can give a very similar look to water colors... as to 'dye' or 'pigment' printing - all dyes have pigments most pigments can also dye - the dye verb meaning to actually adhere itself to a substrate as opposed to pigment merely sitting on top or bound by some adhesive. the most common 'dye' printers use is for sublimating - where the gaseous dye is flowed into areas where it condenses into the micro-texture of the substrate... a very strong mechanical bond, some Van Der Waal bonding as well. But this will absolutely be set in place and not migrate when dampened.
Basically though the difference between 'dye' and 'pigment' based printing is mostly semantic and not chemical - there are great chemical overlaps within the common description of both. Without having seen the final you are looking for, I can say that the Canon 8300 we retired a few years ago behaved like it was using 'dyes' and not 'pigments' - at least in the classic sense.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
Run your image file through a watercolor photoshop filter and have AI (artificial intelligence) add watercolor effect, then print with any printer. You should be able to do the effect digitally and then just print
I like this new approach - like the old effect of scanning a crinkled sheet of paper so the final looks like a crinkled then flattened sheet.
I would seriously caution (more for personal beliefs than capitalism) to watch the quality - when photographs went from analog emulsion to digital we lost a lot - there was never any 'pixelation' before, just a little graininess. but the grains were basically frequency modulated as opposed to screened pixels which are amplitude modulated. When interacting with analog systems (people) frequency modulation almost always looks better. (when interacting with digital systems the analog is forced into digital and you lose data at this point.)
would really like to see what the final product looks like....
dreko
New Member
Can you take fine art papers (200gsm - 330gsm) and run them through your printer?
How large can you print on the water soluble printer?
thanks
dreko
New Member
You should look up the difference between dyes and pigments, I think you might be surprised.
BigfishDM
Merchant Member
Yes, up to 54". Just look for someone with an HP-Z series waterbased printer.
I know the difference from a chemical background - not sure what definition you are using. the general difference from a chemical standpoint is how the color is adhered - inks use binders, dyes adhere themselves. pigments are used to color things and can made to work as dyes in some areas, but can also be mixed with binders to make inks.
pigments, inks, and dyes can all have polar and/or non-polar properties (aqueous and non-aqueous)
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I feel comfortable with my understanding of what is happening chemically with these - again, if you clarify the actual final result you are looking for you may find there are many more solutions you are looking for than what you are looking at by restricting your knowledge to the lay-knowledge of a single industry.
dreko
New Member
Ok, great. Can you DM me your contact information. I'd like to send some contract work to you.
dreko
New Member
From a printer's perspective: not sure this is just 'semantics'
Dye-based inks are made from dissolved colorants, while pigment inks are made from suspended solid colorant particles.
Color
Uses
Other considerations
Dye-based inks are made from dissolved colorants, while pigment inks are made from suspended solid colorant particles.
Color
- Dye-based: Creates vibrant colors that seep into the paper
- Pigment-based: Creates stable colors that remain on the paper's surface
- Dye-based: Fades more quickly, especially in direct sunlight
- Pigment-based: More resistant to fading, especially from humidity and gases
Uses
- Dye-based: More common in consumer printers and for indoor use on products that won't be around for long
- Pigment-based: More common in professional printers and for long-term use
Other considerations
- Clogging: Pigment-based inks can clog the ink jets of printers designed for dye-based ink
- Surface: Pigment-based inks can alter the surface of the printed material, especially on glossy paper
- Handling: Pigment-based inks can come off glossy paper if scratched
yeah, whoever decided on these definitions never took a chemistry class... just be aware there is significant overlap in the actual process than what these terms indicate. Anything that can be used to color things is a pigment. Pigments can be mechanically or self adhered to where they behave as part of the substrate - these would be dyes. Pigments can be adhered using binders that sit on a substrate and do not behave as if they are the same as the substrate. Binders can be aqueous or non-aqueous (solvent - but water is also a solvent so bad term)... what does it mean to be dissolved vs suspended? in our industry, the border between these is mostly an arbitrary distinction. yes, the extremes, like when precipitates freely fall out then they were most likely suspended, but in the real world most pigments are both suspended and dissolved...
again, I really was trying to help you get what you are looking for. any actual pic of something that would show the physical properties you are trying to maximize would help greatly. I hope the suggestion from BigFishDM works. if it does not and you would like to look deeper into this, reach out and I may see a solution that will work.
(btw: for fun I have made U.V. prints, solvent prints, aqueous prints, and latex prints all run - you just have to use the correct solvent for the media/pigment to get it to migrate - basic chromatography.)
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