Question Need Help with Silvering in Lamination Process

[netsol]

(we are in an area where i am a newbie) if it is actually slivering, doesn't it normally GO AWAY in a couple days? (or so they say)
i assume it has been more than a couple days QED it is probably not silvering, at least not in the normal sense of the word
i imagine applying heat after the fact, as a test would just be a waste of time?

 

[siphon56]

I’d love to get on a call with you?
I think what you need is a solvent or a latex printer instead of uv cured. I’m

Maybe he wants the matte or varnish effect on the wrap. In which case, printing on top would be the only way to do it.

Have you tested how well the ink sticks to the laminate? Have you tried printing some and stretching it round a compound curve? Those are the things I would do before offering this to a paying customer.

Edited to add. Unlaminated UV prints are hard to clean. Dirt gets trapped in the texture of the ink and becomes discolored. It’s obviously more noticeable on white and pale colors. Your wrap might look good on day 1, but long term I don’t know.

i think the heat pressure lamination has made the wrap soft. Also i am printing on top of the lamination. Because what we are trying to do is making the film thicker, that’s it.

 

[unmateria]

Wait 24-48h before laminate and then use 60C on the top roller at the slower speed. If it still happens, is usually an old and hard (not soft) laminate

 

[netsol]

Wait 24-48h before laminate and then use 60C on the top roller at the slower speed. If it still happens, is usually an old and hard (not soft) laminate

I think you are having the same problem with his process i am.
he is laminating BEFORE printing,

 

[MarkSnelling]

So let me get this straight - you are laminating white cast vinyl with no ink on it and then printing on top of the lamination?

Is the silvering universally found all over the print or is it primarily in the middle of the print? If it is mostly in the middle, the operator has too much downward pressure on the rollers causing the rollers to deflect in the middle up which produces air bubbles down the center of the print. There's no reason why you would get silvering on unlaminated vinyl.

Heat assist helps when there is ink present...heat assist is adding 'warmth' to the roller....running the top roller around 140 degrees is a good method to get the adhesive to soften and 'wet-out' in order to adhere to a relatively inconsistent ink surface. 140 degrees isn't "hot lam" heat...it should be uncomfortable to put your hand on it but not actually hot to the touch.

 

[Boudica]

I have to say.... I've read about some wacky practices here, but laminating cast vinyl, and then printing on top of the laminate with UV cured ink is among the top 10 of wacky practices. I would also never try printing a vehicle wrap on our UV printer. I would think the ink would crack. None of what the OP is doing makes a lot of sense.

 

[siphon56]

I have to say.... I've read about some wacky practices here, but laminating cast vinyl, and then printing on top of the laminate with UV cured ink is among the top 10 of wacky practices. I would also never try printing a vehicle wrap on our UV printer. I would think the ink would crack. None of what the OP is doing makes a lot of sense.

I never wanted to do that. I first tested it printing just on laminated sheet. And no difference. It’s just like priming on a clear film. But after hot laminating the vinyl. Looks like the the material got soft. Send me a dm, i will send one sample for what we are doing. It will completely blow your mind. We are eventually gonna crash market with our product.

 

[Gettin'By]

Wouldn't you get the same thickness increase if you print and then lam as if you lam and then print? Or are you laminating both before and after printing?

 

[siphon56]

So let me get this straight - you are laminating white cast vinyl with no ink on it and then printing on top of the lamination?

Is the silvering universally found all over the print or is it primarily in the middle of the print? If it is mostly in the middle, the operator has too much downward pressure on the rollers causing the rollers to deflect in the middle up which produces air bubbles down the center of the print. There's no reason why you would get silvering on unlaminated vinyl.

Heat assist helps when there is ink present...heat assist is adding 'warmth' to the roller....running the top roller around 140 degrees is a good method to get the adhesive to soften and 'wet-out' in order to adhere to a relatively inconsistent ink surface. 140 degrees isn't "hot lam" heat...it should be uncomfortable to put your hand on it but not actually hot to the touch.

Do you have a cold roll-roll lamination machine which you could help me run a sample test? It would be much appreciated.

 

[siphon56]

Wouldn't you get the same thickness increase if you print and then lam as if you lam and then print? Or are you laminating both before and after printing?

We can’t laminate after printing because we want texture of gloss on our product.

 

[Boudica]

But after hot laminating the vinyl. Looks like the the material got soft.

That is what happens with heat assist and cast vinyl. I don't use heat when I laminate cast vinyl for that very reason - the adhesive get's gooey, and I just don't like what it does to the vinyl. I only use heat to laminate calendared vinyl.

 

[siphon56]

That is what happens with heat assist and cast vinyl. I don't use heat when I laminate cast vinyl for that very reason - the adhesive get's gooey, and I just don't like what it does to the vinyl. I only use heat to laminate calendared vinyl.

Yup, so do you use cold laminate on cast films? Man just help me out. We are launching next month and still hasn’t figured out the material yet lmao. We were using 40C but that is the worst adhesive i have ever seen. We really loved the ij180c the best adhesive so far we have seen. But the thickness of the 180c is very thin, this is the main reason why we are laminating it, to make it thicker. Here’s our product image.

 

[Boudica]

When I'm laminating cast vinyl, I just don't have the heat on. I don't really understand what you are trying to do... but there is thicker vinyl out there. Ij40 is a removable adhesive. Why do you need cast vinyl, what exactly are you doing? That picture looks kinda cool, but it looks like you try to put that on a contour, it's going to crack - not to mention you won't be able to stretch it at all like you need to do when wraping a vehicle.

I don't understand what you are trying to do, or why... but layering laminate just seems unnecessary - just like printing on cast vinyl with or without laminate with UV ink is unnecessary.

 

[JBurton]

I don't really understand what you are trying to do...

If I've followed correctly, laptop/phone skins.

We are launching next month and still hasn’t figured out the material yet lmao.

Have you tried anything that substance has to offer? Sounds like the TL-6100 laminate would fit the bill, especially if you can print white. It's like 6mils thick.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Do you have a cold roll-roll lamination machine which you could help me run a sample test? It would be much appreciated.

I sell the machines, I don't run them. I could help facilitate a test, though, if you want to send me some films I'll run them and send them back.

 

[netsol]

if the question is the substrate/laminate combination for cell phone/tablet wraps (??)
most of our experience is useless to you

HOWEVER

a couple years ago, i remember following a thread about this very topic. there are probably a few,threads if you search for cell phone wrap, etc

have you considered that you are on the wrong forum? there are enough people doing what you want that you might find a forum elsewhere with the information you want

I AM NOT TRYING TO GET RID OF YOU

just suggesting that we are not the perfect forum for this

in the same way, many of the epson people needed to go to photographic forums for info on the stylus pro 7600's and that sort of thing

what kind of business is this going to be? similar to a Mall Kiosk?
something supplimenting a cracked screen replacement business?

just trying to wrap my head around it

 

[siphon56]

When I'm laminating cast vinyl, I just don't have the heat on. I don't really understand what you are trying to do... but there is thicker vinyl out there. Ij40 is a removable adhesive. Why do you need cast vinyl, what exactly are you doing? That picture looks kinda cool, but it looks like you try to put that on a contour, it's going to crack - not to mention you won't be able to stretch it at all like you need to do when wraping a vehicle.

I don't understand what you are trying to do, or why... but layering laminate just seems unnecessary - just like printing on cast vinyl with or without laminate with UV ink is unnecessary.

I sell the machines, I don't run them. I could help facilitate a test, though, if you want to send me some films I'll run them and send them back.

Sounds good! Thanks for helping me on this.