need info & opinions

[Marlene]

we just installed an internally illuminated sign and have a serious issue. the sign is aluminum with routed out & push thru letters. all the letters are filling with water (see photo). the sign has a customer supplied logo that has one part of the in white and the rest in a PMS green, all are push thru. we spec'd the sign so that the white and green would be painted on the front, not be opaque, but front lighted. the letters would be .5" thick clear so that there also is a side halo. the company that made this did just what they felt like doing and ignored all instructions, backed the clear with white so the push thru part is totally clear and used green vinyl on the fronts of the other letters...errrr.

my issue is the water that is seen in the letter. water trapped like will cause issues like green stuff growing and dirty blackening of the letter. we sent the photos to the manufacture who took three days to come with an answer that is is how these puch thru work and it is common for the letters to fill with water. I don't believe that. is it common? is it normal?

 

[visual800]

do you have any more pics of the sign itself, pics of top, zooming on water logged letter is not allowing to figure this out. Is it normal to be filed with water? no. its coming thru somewhere but without shots on the sign itself hard to see where

 

[Marlene]

these are two pixs the customer sent us to show us what was going on. the sign was spec'd so that one side would have a face that can be removed to serivce the sign, sign is illuminated with white LED. the manufacture made it so both faces are hinged. the lettering on the bottom of the sign is routed and backed with white

 

[John in Cali]

I don't think the picture tells the whole story, but it looks like the manufacturer glued the clear acrylic to a white acrylic backer, and did a terrible job with the application, leaving air pockets between the two pieces.

 

[John in Cali]

Looks like my thoughts were incorrect. I've never seen pushthru do that before.

 

[Marlene]

I don't think the picture tells the whole story, but it looks like the manufacturer glued the clear acrylic to a white acrylic backer, and did a terrible job with the application, leaving air pockets between the two pieces.

the manufacture is saying this is "normal". I so don't believe that and appreciate the opinions from my peeps here. thanks for taking a look at it as nothing that was spec'd by us was done to make this sign.

 

[visual800]

now that is a little too much water! im wondering if its getting in thru the hinge at top? IF SO i would take some aluminum angle painted to macth the sign and screw it into top and let it 90 degree down the front of sign as a dripcap if you will that should alleviate this water issue not gonna be pretty but i dont think it will be that noticable

 

[Gino]

I can't tell what's happening for sure, but let me ask you this..............

When you received the sign and it didn't meet specs, did you call them and tell them this was unacceptable and put it up with their approval they would service or replace anything that goes wrong ??

OR........​

Did you just register a complaint without any further guarantee ??


Many times, we have things come in from various vendors and if it doesn't meet our specs or expectations, we will refuse delivery and make them fix it or do it again. I explain to my customer what has happened and jointly we expect a discount for their missing deadlines.

For us, this has only happened maybe a total of three times in our 30 years in business, but when something is fabricated out of house, you need to have a disclaimer with your customer in case something like this does happen and a written agreement with your vendor of choice.

 

[Rick]

If that is water, this is not normal, if water is getting behind the letter in that amount, that is poor adhesion (or application) to the backer. When water can get in, other crap can. There might be some bubbles, or voids, but this seems a bit too much.

I usually prefer to rout the letter and leave a ledge that would hold the letter in place inside the cabinet instead of using a backer that can sometimes fail, or in this case, trap water.

 

[J Hill Designs]

I usually prefer to rout the letter and leave a ledge that would hold the letter in place inside the cabinet

+1

 

[Marlene]

we complained for sure. the company that made the sign has been making our illuminated signs for years. the problem we are having is with the sales person as she seems to just go off and do what she wants and ignores what was spec'd. in this case, the things she decided to do were not what we wanted but visually, they were OK. they weren't what we asked for and the sign was not made as requested. that is something that we would know but to the customer, the sign was what we said it would be. what happened was we pretty much said fine, it at least looks like what the customer wanted even if it wasn't made the way we wanted it to be made. I know that sounds like a cop out but it wasn't as there are many methods to to come to the same end result and we wrote this off as that, lesson learned, find another source for our signs or request another sales person. when we asked that the letters be painted on the front, white and a PMS green, front lighted, not opaque, .5" thick clear so that there was also an edge halo, I expected that would be how this sign was made. what happened was the clear was backed with white as was the green and the green was translucent vinyl applied to the front of the letters. the end result was the white and green front were front lighted and pushed thru, just not how I spec'd it to happen. it ticked us off a lot. enough so that we are in the process of finding a new vendor.

the issues with the water is a whole other thing as no matter how the letters were made, painted or with vinyl, there shouldn't be water in them. I've posted this here as we are going after them for this issue and are being told that this is normal for this type of sign. I know that it can't be but wanted to make sure that I was correct to believe that this should not be happening. the thread is to help support that view.

 

[Marlene]

I usually prefer to rout the letter and leave a ledge that would hold the letter in place inside the cabinet instead of using a backer that can sometimes fail, or in this case, trap water.

totally agree!!! this was how it should have been made

 

[HulkSmash]

the manufacture is saying this is "normal". I so don't believe that and appreciate the opinions from my peeps here. thanks for taking a look at it as nothing that was spec'd by us was done to make this sign.

Not normal at all -- i'd be sure to get a prompt replacement, and make sure they're willing to pay for the re install.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

absolutely not normal & simply shows that sign was not constructed professionally.

 

[nwsigns]

Looks like they routed the letters with a ledge and then used a backer behind that without gluing the letters down which is not uncommon and allows the letters to float while being held in place. There should not be that much water in the sign though, it must be running down the inside face and sticking around where the backer and letters touch more. Needs to be fixed for sure.

 

[Marlene]

thanks for all the replies. this sign was not made correctly and needs to be replaced as it will only get worse as time goes by and things start to grow in the standing water behind the letters. it is normal for a sign to leak and that's why there are weep holes. I'll let you all know how this turns out.

thanks again!

 

[nwsigns]

Its actually not normal for a sign to leak - the weep holes are there mostly for condensation and unexpected leaks. A leak like yours will make a lot of condensation inside the cab and the wiring will be trash in no time.

 

[Moze]

The rout-out push-through (ROPT) portion including the flange should have been CAD-cut as one piece from acrylic. There's no reason to mechanically fasten the flange portion to the push-through portion. Any desired colors (background, etc.) could have been achieved with vinyl.

In my opinion they need to redo it or not get paid. It's simply not built properly.

 

[MikePro]

we seal our push-thru letters with clear silicone AND, in most cases, back the clear letter with white trans. (or other color) vinyl.

if not, water spots will be the least of your worries... bugs are attracted by the light and will fill your letters with hundreds of corpses in no time.

 

[Marlene]

if not, water spots will be the least of your worries... bugs are attracted by the light and will fill your letters with hundreds of corpses in no time.

ugh, I hadn't even thought about that!

well, from all the posts, it sure sounds like poor workmanship and not "normal" as we were told. thanks everyone for all the help, it is appreciated.