Need printer recommendation for printing on Zinc modules, terminal blocks,Overlays

[AdMan]

I am researching the possiblity of doing printing on Zinc enclosures with basic artwork
like serial numbers, terminal numbers and instructions.

Also we need to print on 8 mil AutoTEX overlay material (reversed on back) and then
apply 3M or other manufacturers Sticky Sheet so we can apply them to control
panels for simple graphic overlays. We were thinking of a Laser to cut holes in
them after ( or before if feasible ).

New to the whole business of ink jet printing on an industrial level. Our parts will
be just under 4 inches tall. We need to have an ability to have a signal tell us the
part is done, and tell the printer to start after loading. Probably a signal to say
its non functional also.

We would also like to print on terminal blocks which are Polyamide 6.6 GF. These
are the green ones you probably see in a lot of your equipment.

I am guessing I need a flat bed printer. I saw the comments on some vendors having
issues so I guess its really about you the forums opinions that are of significant
value.

We do a lot heavy automation so we are used to robots, xy equipment etc but the
science of Ink that lasts in an automotive underhood and under sometimes
heavy sun outdoor situation is on our mind.

I would very much appreciate recommendations for a printer that can handle
the normal 4 color arrangement with white and clear that can handle the 4 inch
parts. Max size is not more than a standard piece 8.5 x 11 paper for both parts
and overlays. We intended to make jigs for the terminal strips to do many at a time.

Also laser cutters if you know of them too.

You are all members of a fine forum, my hats off to you all for keeping it clean.

thank you

 

[artbot]

you are in luck in that you don't need to manage a large machine. what is the budget that you have to invest. there are many small uv printers that range in price.

how much time do you need each part to take for printing? is this random data/print info? or the same over and over again. if it's the same info each time, i'd go with a pad printer instead. you'll be able to use very durable inks. or maybe a small laser engraver.

also, you will have adhesion issues with the polyamide. that stuff very non-stick.

doing two color on an odd shaped part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_THJMuZIvs


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOtdW_MQ0GI
[/URL]

 

[AdMan]

Thanks for the reply,

Budget would be great at about 20 to 30K and change.

We want also to print serial numbers and some other
dynamic data.

On the polyamide we have a lot of different number
sets to make so the uv printer sounds great since we
can load different data for an array of terminals.
I was hoping the UV inks would stick.

The Zinc parts are also dynamic. The big one is that we
want to print Textured overlays that also can have
different data and lots of single piece orders.

I was looking at Direct Color Systems, Roland UVLEF.
Do not know the prices on the Direct Color Systems.
DCS seems to print on all kinds of surfaces, do not know
whose heads or ink they are using.

thanks

 

[artbot]

there is this belief that UV ink is magical in that it can be printed and cured immediately. the worst issue with uv inkjet is it has terrible adhesion. most inks have a chance to "bite" the surface in some way. uv ink is cured so quickly that it has very little time to wet out. wetting is the most important aspect of adhesion. think of is as a layer of cured plastic laying on surface. there's not much chemical bond.

your solution may be one uv printer. it may be a solvent flatbed solvent printer. solvent printed parts will outgas in a few minutes and have better adhesion to certain plastics. the solution may be a cheap flatbed printer and a cheap laser engraver, or a pad printer. for speed, pad printing will be blindingly fast compared to inkjet and have fantastic adhesion. if there's a logo or anything that is on everything, i'd insist on a pad printer for that task. the random data serial numbers will be permanent in a laser engraver. a laser engraved serial number will also be much faster than inkjet and never have the issue of adhesion. as far as building textures, texture building with uv inkjet is insanely slow. to build up 1mm of surface you might have to make 12 passes that means the image no matter how small will take a few minutes to achieve. keep in mind that pad printing leaves a raised/textured print.

the fact that you don't need raster data and your images/logo will stay the same and serial numbers can be line based vs inkjet pass based, i'd seriously consider all the options. inkjet is a pain to work with considering all the curing, clogging, slow print times, bad adhesion. it is good for things like promotional items that change often (golf balls, signage, photo based imagery) but not good for high speed repetitive prints or where durability is needed.

 

[AdMan]

We were wondering if we used a laser to put an
"etch" down on the the locations we want to print.

Do you think that would help the bond out?

 

[artbot]

possibly. polyamide is a non stick surface.

there are some very high tech companies out there that make advanced adhesion promoters. they can cost as much as $1000 a gallon. but for your purposes the gallon would last forever.

http://www.reltekllc.com/adhesives-for-nylon.html

also is there a clearance issue? inkjet heads have to come very very close to the part. you'll need a very flat surface. pad printing and lasers can project the print into cavities.

 

[AdMan]

Just read over the Chemistry of Polyamide you sent
a link for. Pretty mean stuff when it comes to trying
to stick something to it. We will be talking to those guys.
Can we fill an ink cartridge with the Bonder Primer
and pre shoot that much like a white underlayment?

They did say the flame etch prepped the surface really
well for a tertiary bond. I wonder if the the laser etch
could do the same?

The cavity on terminals is only .029 inches deep and we will design
the jigs to make that parallel to the printing plane. This should be less
than the curvature on the golf balls I have seen printed

Do you have any ideas on printing on Zinc? I am assuming
we are ok printing on standard overlay material for doing
our small instrument panels?

Saw some videos from Direct Color Systems of them printing
on Stainless Steel that looked really quite good.

thanks for your help...

 

[rubo]

I print on zinc and stainless steel all day along - with water based inks - PM me and I'll try to answer any questions you have - that is if I know the answer, of course.

 

[artbot]

do you have any schematics of the parts and some renderings of the types of imagery/logo and serial numbers you plan to print?


flame treatment may be an option forgot about that, also there's plasma treatment. plasma/corona treatment can render a non-stick long chain plastic
printable. the state goes away over time but that wouldn't be an issue if it was treated then printed soon after.


there is such a thing as printing the primer. ideally, you'd need a system that is set up for cmyk, w, and varnish. the varnish line would then
be used for adhesion promoter.

you've got quite a complex set of needs. whatever you buy, test using the OEM's demo like crazy before laying down any money. you'll need to do adhesion tests to
printed finals from the equipment you choose.

 

[AdMan]

thank you so much for your help,

I plan on sending artwork,jigs,parts to several vendors
for them to run test parts.

Have you had experience with the Roland,DCS or
Mamika? I saw a running thread on is it CES? that
looked like they were not being very helpful to
a guy in big trouble.

I sent a PM ( I hope it went through ) to the
gentlemen who has been printing on zinc for
a long time. Hopefully he will have some hints
on that.

 

[artbot]

this might be a useful page as well.

http://support.rolanddga.com/docs/D...nd Guides/AdhesionPromoterResourceDocv1.1.pdf

 

[AdMan]

Excellent PDF thanks!

 

[artbot]

you may have been to the inkcups.com website. they seem to do everything. i'd consult them for solutions. because they do everything, they won't be compelled to "talk you into" a machine that isn't perfect. plus they do production jigs.