Need some help from the print masters!

[dypinc]

I've opened a case with HP, I've sent all the info and they are waiting for their engineer to get in. He had me do a manual print head alignment, which I thought some of the settings were way off, so I'm sure that was good to do anyway.

I'm not sure why the preview in Onyx looks washed out, just like the print does. To me, it almost looks like Onyx is printing exactly what it's told, and in this case, that's a washed out print. But it could just be that the preview pane doesn't render that well.

If there is any chance you can get a demo of another RIP and test that. You can determined if it is an onyx issue or not.

The other possibility is to put another Hard Drive in your RIP box and do a clean install of the OS and Onyx.

 

[CES020]

What would the other RIP be? Only one I know of that works with the latex is Caldera, right? I do have a Mac that I can run that from, but it's not the same machine we're running Onyx from. I'm downloading it now and I'll see if I can get it to work.

 

[dypinc]

What would the other RIP be? Only one I know of that works with the latex is Caldera, right? I do have a Mac that I can run that from, but it's not the same machine we're running Onyx from. I'm downloading it now and I'll see if I can get it to work.

Caldera can be a chore to install, and from my experience with it I would run it on a Mac that is you main workstation. On the other had if you have hard drive you can stick in your RIP box you could install Caldera and their Linux OS on it. If you call Caldera they will get you demo keys.

If I was you I would download a Windows version of Sharaz and install it on the RIP box your running now. It will run a full version for 15 days.

http://www.shiraz-software.com/

You can also download a Mac version as well.

 

[CES020]

After noting the fade that was in the preview, my thought process was that the preview was right and it was printing exactly what was in the preview. Why the preview image was hazy, I don't know. So I found the file in the Onyx directory and opened it in Job Editor, and RIP'd it. The preview showed a clear, colorful preview. So I printed it and it printed fantastic. All the hazy stuff was gone.

I'm trying to hit in a Pantone blue range, so I find the Pantone poster file in Onyx, crop it in Job Editor to the blue area, print it, pick the blue that matches, I go into Illustrator, change the color to that Pantone color, save as PDF, RIP it, print it, and it's a completely different color to the blue that's on the chart I printed out 15 minutes before. I pull out the pantone book and the color is actually really close to being right. Why the pantone chart printed so far off is baffling to me.

 

[danno]

Have you increased the passes?

 

[dypinc]

After noting the fade that was in the preview, my thought process was that the preview was right and it was printing exactly what was in the preview. Why the preview image was hazy, I don't know. So I found the file in the Onyx directory and opened it in Job Editor, and RIP'd it. The preview showed a clear, colorful preview. So I printed it and it printed fantastic. All the hazy stuff was gone.

I'm trying to hit in a Pantone blue range, so I find the Pantone poster file in Onyx, crop it in Job Editor to the blue area, print it, pick the blue that matches, I go into Illustrator, change the color to that Pantone color, save as PDF, RIP it, print it, and it's a completely different color to the blue that's on the chart I printed out 15 minutes before. I pull out the pantone book and the color is actually really close to being right. Why the pantone chart printed so far off is baffling to me.

I have used or demoed probably at least 10 different RIPs over the last 10 to 15 years and I found Onyx to be one of the most frustrating. Things like your describing, RIP errors with no error message as to the reason for the error, on same exact files that RIP on other RIPs at the same time. Spot colors I found to be a challenge as well, as well as the general overall slowness of RIP, cut and grommet marks, etc.

 

[P Wagner]

I'm trying to hit in a Pantone blue range, so I find the Pantone poster file in Onyx, crop it in Job Editor to the blue area, print it, pick the blue that matches, I go into Illustrator, change the color to that Pantone color, save as PDF, RIP it, print it, and it's a completely different color to the blue that's on the chart I printed out 15 minutes before. I pull out the pantone book and the color is actually really close to being right. Why the pantone chart printed so far off is baffling to me.

It sounds like you are making this (simulating/ reproducing Pantone colors) more difficult than it really needs to be. As you are using Adobe Illustrator to design in (I think?) and Onyx to RIP, both of these products already include references to virtually all Pantone colors and names.

The easiest and most accurate way to proceed is:

1. Design in Illustrator, and use the Pantone color (versus an RGB or CMYK defined color) to fill the desired object(s).
2. Save as an EPS or PDF file.
3. Bring the file into ONYX Job Editor/ Preflight. Be sure that the QuickSet used to bring the job into the RIP is using the Spot Color Replacement Table (checkbox must be enabled in the QuickSet Configuration). If you change the media in Job Editor, be sure to Apply the change (2nd tab)

Send the job as normal. This approach will use the LAB value of the Pantone color as the target color, and the ICC profile for the selected media to make it happen on the media that you are using. Note that out of gamut situations will still happen, and the Relative Colorimetric rendering intent should be used (this is also defined in the QuickSet) for best results with vector data. This approach will yield the closest possible match to the Pantone reference color is really all cases. The variable here is the quality and accuracy of the ICC profile that is being used to reproduce colors through.

 

[CES020]

It sounds like you are making this (simulating/ reproducing Pantone colors) more difficult than it really needs to be. As you are using Adobe Illustrator to design in (I think?) and Onyx to RIP, both of these products already include references to virtually all Pantone colors and names.

The easiest and most accurate way to proceed is:

1. Design in Illustrator, and use the Pantone color (versus an RGB or CMYK defined color) to fill the desired object(s).
2. Save as an EPS or PDF file.
3. Bring the file into ONYX Job Editor/ Preflight. Be sure that the QuickSet used to bring the job into the RIP is using the Spot Color Replacement Table (checkbox must be enabled in the QuickSet Configuration). If you change the media in Job Editor, be sure to Apply the change (2nd tab)

Send the job as normal. This approach will use the LAB value of the Pantone color as the target color, and the ICC profile for the selected media to make it happen on the media that you are using. Note that out of gamut situations will still happen, and the Relative Colorimetric rendering intent should be used (this is also defined in the QuickSet) for best results with vector data. This approach will yield the closest possible match to the Pantone reference color is really all cases. The variable here is the quality and accuracy of the ICC profile that is being used to reproduce colors through.

That's exactly what I am doing that's not working. My workflow has been :

1. Design in Illustrator, using Pantone color.
2. Save as PDF
3. Open in Onyx
4. Select Media
5. Print

But that's not working, all my blues are going way purple. For instance, a blue like used in this forum header background is coming out Minnesota Vikings purple.

I only printed out the pantone swatch to try and bypass some of the mismatch and just pick a color that worked so I could get this one freakin' job out that's killing me. That would not normally be my normal workflow, but I have a Friday deadline for this job and I need to get it done, however that is, then I can step back and get some of the other details worked out.

 

[CES020]

Have you increased the passes?

I have gone up to 12 passes.

 

[dypinc]

That's exactly what I am doing that's not working. My workflow has been :

1. Design in Illustrator, using Pantone color.
2. Save as PDF
3. Open in Onyx
4. Select Media
5. Print

But that's not working, all my blues are going way purple. For instance, a blue like used in this forum header background is coming out Minnesota Vikings purple.

I only printed out the pantone swatch to try and bypass some of the mismatch and just pick a color that worked so I could get this one freakin' job out that's killing me. That would not normally be my normal workflow, but I have a Friday deadline for this job and I need to get it done, however that is, then I can step back and get some of the other details worked out.

Your are using Relative Colorimetric rendering aren't you?

 

[CES020]

Your are using Relative Colorimetric rendering aren't you?

I am currently using Relative Colorimetric with spot color tables turned on.

 

[dypinc]

I am currently using Relative Colorimetric with spot color tables turned on.

What I have had to do with many RIPs is read in new LAB values with the Spectro. But not sure if Onyx has that function or I just couldn't find it.

 

[CES020]

I'm starting over and building a profile from scratch.

Right now, I have faked the color way off to make it print close to what I need, and I can get through this job, then tonight, I'll start creating a new profile and see if that fixes everything.

I'm just puzzled at how we went from "doing great" to "train wreck" without actually doing anything different. My workflow has been the same, I haven't changed any profiles, haven't modified anything. Only thing we did was replace one print head 8 days ago, and it's been chaos since then.

 

[dypinc]

I'm starting over and building a profile from scratch.

Right now, I have faked the color way off to make it print close to what I need, and I can get through this job, then tonight, I'll start creating a new profile and see if that fixes everything.

I'm just puzzled at how we went from "doing great" to "train wreck" without actually doing anything different. My workflow has been the same, I haven't changed any profiles, haven't modified anything. Only thing we did was replace one print head 8 days ago, and it's been chaos since then.

You did do a re-linearization/calibration after replacing the print head didn't you? Sorry I overlooked asking that when I asked about replacing the printhead.