Need suggestions for material to use

[Annette Asberg]

Hi
I need a suggestion regarding what material to use on a sign that can stand outdoor for 10 years.
That won't fade and look the same as new.
Please both vinyl and laminate.
Thank's Annette

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Hi
I need a suggestion regarding what material to use on a sign that can stand outdoor for 10 years.
That won't fade and look the same as new.
Please both vinyl and laminate.
Thank's Annette

No digital print vinyl and lamination will last 10 years outdoors and still look brand new...

 

[equippaint]

Why? If you are trying to accommodate that you are nuts. E-coated steel, painted with top notch auto paints like Deltron with a top shelf clear may fit the bill. I wouldn't hang my hat on that either.

 

[Z SIGNS]

If your looking for 10 years or more forget about digital prints unless it's getting installed where it's not exposed to the sun.
If you want 10 years you have to think cast bronze,routed pvc etc.

 

[Annette Asberg]

Why? If you are trying to accommodate that you are nuts. E-coated steel, painted with top notch auto paints like Deltron with a top shelf clear may fit the bill. I wouldn't hang my hat on that either.

Sorry but I'm not nuts. It was a customer who asked for it and I didn't know what to do

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Read the specs of different vinyls and it will tell you what to expect.

Inform the client if he wants his sign to look brand new after 10 years, tell him to set a reminder to buy a new sign 9 years and 11 months from now.

 

[equippaint]

Sorry but I'm not nuts. It was a customer who asked for it and I didn't know what to do

I didn't say that you were but you didn't know what to do? If you're in the business, you should generally know basic stuff like this. I said what I said because 10 years with ZERO wear is nonsensical in pretty much anything that I can think of.

 

[MikePro]

just do what most vinyl mfg's do .... boast a 10yr warranty, with an asterisk noted in the fine print: that, "any horizontal surface & any basically surface in california/arizona/etc. cuts the warranty in half"

 

[Annette Asberg]

I didn't say that you were but you didn't know what to do? If you're in the business, you should generally know basic stuff like this. I said what I said because 10 years with ZERO wear is nonsensical in pretty much anything that I can think of.

Ok, then.
I am new in the business and the customer asked specially for vinyl.

 

[BUCKY]

Ok, then.
I am new in the business and the customer asked specially for vinyl.

Cut paint mask for everything on the sign. You will have to mask and unmask for color changes so you will need negative and positive masks.
Scuff the background of the panels. Prep, apply mask and spray with a good automotive base coat/ clear coat paint.
If you do not have the resources to do this yourself sub it out to a Body Shop for the spraying.
This is the only option you have for reaching a 10 year finish goal. As others have said, no vinyls will last 10 years and look new.

 

[Lindsey]

Hello Annette,

Just because the customer wants & asked for a 10yr durability, doesn't mean it's realistic.

That's like asking for a 10yr old car to look like new.

The inks on a digital print will eventually fade from UV exposure. If you choose a high-end cast film & cast laminate (I'd go with 3M IJ180 film & 3M [HASHTAG]#8518[/HASHTAG] laminate), 5 years would be an appropriate expectation. Actual lifespan will depend on the installation location, and if the film is applied correctly.

If the design is not full-colour, a cast cut-vinyl film would likely hold up longer (Avery SC950 series or 3M Scotchcal).

Be sure to set your customers expectations. Sometimes I break down the ROI for them, so they feel better about their investment. $2000 sign (whatever the price is)...365 days/year...x 5 years = $1.10 per day.

 

[ddarlak]

I made a 8' x 12' aluminum sign 18 years ago, Oracal high performance vinyl. I used to drive by the sign all the time, still looked like the day I made it. Last week I drove by, they took it down, company moved and took sign with them

 

[TimToad]

Ok, then.
I am new in the business and the customer asked specially for vinyl.

Depending on the location and sun exposure, you might get close with one of the 9 year, high performance, cast vinyls, but that recommendation should be weighed with your knowledge of the first two factors.

I think the catch is the "looking like new" part of the request.

These materials and the manufacturers who produce them are simply behind the curve on the rapidly increasing effects of our changing climate. I'm not sure if using plastic polish, automotive waxes, clearcoat, etc.. will do much to add significant longevity either.

I'd recommend a paint mask approach while using the best, most durable and well fortified industrial grade paint products on the most stable substrate your skill level and shop facility can apply.

 

[SuccessfulSigns]

This is a situation where you will need to educate yourself and the customer (without giving away too much proprietary information). People often ask us how long their sign will last and we tell them honestly what the materials are rated for by the manufacturer and that weather conditions like sun exposure effect the longevity of each sign. We printed two identical banners 5 years ago for a customer that are mounted back to back on plywood. The South facing banner is faded, the north facing banner looks as good as they day we installed it.The same happened with a sign that was a combination of cut cast vinyl and unlaminated digital print. Both sides looked great after several years except for the digital print portion that faced south.

 

[Jay Kroll]

Cut paint mask for everything on the sign. You will have to mask and unmask for color changes so you will need negative and positive masks.
Scuff the background of the panels. Prep, apply mask and spray with a good automotive base coat/ clear coat paint.
If you do not have the resources to do this yourself sub it out to a Body Shop for the spraying.
This is the only option you have for reaching a 10 year finish goal. As others have said, no vinyls will last 10 years and look new.

General Formulations makes a paint mask film (850 White or 851 Yellow) that can handle the multiple layers of paint.

 

[Jay Kroll]

Hi
I need a suggestion regarding what material to use on a sign that can stand outdoor for 10 years.
That won't fade and look the same as new.
Please both vinyl and laminate.
Thank's Annette

You'll be hard pressed to find a vinyl with a warranty stating 10 years outdoor durability...

As for laminates, General Formulations' new 108 Tedlar laminate is rated for 10yr UV and Graffiti Resistance by DuPont. You could use this over a vinyl to extend the life, but would hesitate to transfer the Tedlar warranty to the vinyl underneath.
http://www.generalformulations.com/...GF-108-DuPont™-Tedlar™-Clear-PVF-OVERLAMINATE

 

[BluetailGFX]

Hi
I need a suggestion regarding what material to use on a sign that can stand outdoor for 10 years.
That won't fade and look the same as new.
Please both vinyl and laminate.
Thank's Annette

No vinyl and laminate film will last 10 years guaranteed.

The only printable thing that will guarantee 10 years Plus would be HPL graphics.... High Pressure Laminate. izoneimaging.com
But you are looking at a considerable wait time for production as well as a high cost. Approximately $42 per sqft, your cost.... plus shipping.

On some church signs I have also made everything out of lasered acrylic colors, then glued everything together with the proper Weld On. But everything has to be simplified like a spot color vinyl job. This will also last over 10 years generally. Especially if its facing north.

That said, I did some 8'x8' 4 sided parking lot markers for a theme park back in 2003. They were painted base coat black dupont automotive paint, over 3/16" aluminum, then a 3M 180 digital print applied, floated in the center to leave black on all edges, scuffed the prints surface and buried it all in 2 coats of dupont clear. These structures started showing some wear on the south sides that was noticeable in 2016.

Also, on a recent 2017 trip back to my midwestern home town, I noted an old fully painted with One Shot mini billboard. The background was white and the letters were red. We rolled Frog Juice Clear over everything on that job...... The letters were just starting to show some brush marks in the red, but the red was still RED. White background had taken on some yellowing, but that could have been dirt from age. That was done on MDO back in about 1997. So 20 years and its still there.......

So you could possibly roller some Frog Juice over the prints after mounting, and scuffing the laminate, and it just might make it 10 years.

 

[Gino]

Years ago, we could produce signs that would last 15 to 20 years before showing signs of fading or your brush marks. There were no tricks to it, it was how things worked back then. Move ahead to the vinyl world and most vinyls will last 3 to 5 or 6 years.
Most likely, if you can find someone to powder coat your substrate and then letter it with a good grade cast vinyl, you'll probably get close to ten years, but nothing will look as good as it did, when first put on. Just be careful of what you promise and what the customers ask for and try to educate them to what is available and what lies most people will tell them about their products.

Good luck...............

 

[Johnny Best]

I wish I could look the same now as I will in 10 years.
I have used Tedlar overlaminate in the past and it breaks down just like cast laminates and a lot more money.
An acrylic face with cast cut vinyl starts to look bad after 5 years if facing the sun half the day.
Fiberglass embedded signs will be your best bet for longevity, but you need a certain company to make those.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

I made a 8' x 12' aluminum sign 18 years ago, Oracal high performance vinyl. I used to drive by the sign all the time, still looked like the day I made it. Last week I drove by, they took it down, company moved and took sign with them

I've only been in the business 8 years but we've done a lot of signs with Oracal 751 and 951 on painted panels that still look every bit as good as the day we did them. The paint might have turned a bit chalky by now but the vinyl still looks flawless. As far as print and laminate though, I'd never expect that kind of performance.

I'd say one important factor might be where are the signs going? If they are going up somewhere overhead, any long term degradation of the sign will be much harder to notice.