Need Suggestions on upgrading our UV Flatbed Printer and Flatbed Cutter

[Alamo]

I'm about to make some BIG purchases and would greatly appreciate any feedback to help steer me in the right direction! I've scoured the forums for a few weeks now to get to this point and would be very grateful for any advice.

I currently have a 3'x2' Logojet and am looking to upgrade to a 4'x8'. I primarily print CMYK on Foamcore but would like to start doing more white once I upgrade to a faster printer. I have been leaning towards the Mimaki JFX 2513EX, for the price and also the fact the inks say they are Greenguard Ceritfied. I have also been looking at the Vanguard VR5De, but have had a bit of a rough start with simply getting information from them about the product and pricing (still waiting for a price!). I am open to any other suggestions considering my following needs.

Here are my top concerns. Printing photos on foam core (think like Smallwood signs). Right now with Logojet the full color prints have a smell once printed, and also a bit of a glare. I am wondering if there is a certain type of printer or ink that would be more suitable for printing photos so that there's no glare. I feel like if the Mimaki inks are Greenguard ceritified, they shouldn't have much of a smell once printed but I have seen complains on here of the smell, so that is a concern to me.

My other concern is workflow/RIP software. We are also adding a flatbed cutter to our workflow (I am leaning towards Colex but have also had my eyes on Summa) and it sounds like there are options when choosing RIP software (Caldera, Onyx to name a couple?) but I have zero experience with this. With my current Logojet, I use their own RIP software, and we are cutting the foam manually. I do a lot of personalized designs, so think of printing a full sheet of different designs, but all the same size. It sounds like what I'll be doing in the future then is printing registration marks on the sheets, and then loading that somehow into the cutter software? Please excuse my lack of terminiology, like I said this is all new to me!

Any advice to help steer me in the right direction regarding inks, smells, and workflow is beyond appreciated. My goal is to speed up production and minimize man hours playing with templates or software, the more streamline system the better. Thanks again!!!

Edit: I should also mention, budget isn't a huge concern, my main concern is getting the right equipment and I'll borrow whatever I need to make that happen.

 

[CanuckSigns]

You mentioned smells being a concern, I've never seen a UV flatbed printer that didn't stink up the shop!

I don't own a flatbed printer, but I do own a summa F1612 and it would be perfect for the applications you listed, but so would the Colex.

Our workflow with the F1612 is to print out of onyx, which will automatically add the crop marks and barcode, the summa then reads the barcode and pulls the correct cut file from the server, if it's set up properly, the correct tools will already be selected for the material you are using and it will just start cutting, pretty painless and simple.

 

[balstestrat]

If you want smell free, consider HP R1000.

About the RIP. What ever you choose, Caldera, Onyx etc. usually they all require you to purchase a flatbed printer-class license and a flatbed cutter license.
If you use that it will take your file with the cutcontour and automatically create the marks and barcode for the print and cut file for the cutter.

 

[rjssigns]

I run a 3 or 4 year old JFX-200 for one of my classes. It isn't a speed demon by any stretch but it prints beautifully. Seems to be fairly reliable too. Heads were replaced after roughly two years.
The ink does have an odor. It's noticeable if you're standing there when it's running. But the lab has air exchange to mitigate.

The RIP is Rasterlink. There's a reason it's free, we'll just leave it at that.

 

[Pauly]

UV inks smell. But it goes away.

i can't stress this enough.
See the printer in action, Get samples made on the spot.
Show the companies/manufactures what you want to achieve.

There's heaps of companies you could look at,
Pricing can fluctuate a lot depending on company, features & speed.

I personally would choose any of the following over the mimaki. Im not sure about the pricing on the ones below, but they're all the entry ones.
These will also come with either Onyx or Caldera.
Mimaki is the most entry level/bare bones where you need to pay for a better RIP.
You'll also find all / most inks are greenguard gold and / or have different or other health and safety rating.

Canon Arizona 135 gt
Digitech trufire ST
Vanguard. (not sure about their range)
Swissqprint oryx.

HPR1000 if you want latex, but you may struggle to higher resolution out of it VS some of the UV options like the Canon or Swissqprint

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I have a Summa F1612 and an Epson V7000. They both have been awesome!! But yes, UV ink will smell. Definitely look into the Epson too.

 

[Alamo]

If you want smell free, consider HP R1000.

About the RIP. What ever you choose, Caldera, Onyx etc. usually they all require you to purchase a flatbed printer-class license and a flatbed cutter license.
If you use that it will take your file with the cutcontour and automatically create the marks and barcode for the print and cut file for the cutter.

Thank you for the reply! I've steered clear of looking into the HP's because of some of the replies on this forum, I believe mostly regarding support or lack of. I will add it to my list to consider though because no smells are very important to me. Good to know about the license, I've not heard of that but it sounds like exactly what I'll be needing.

 

[balstestrat]

Thank you for the reply! I've steered clear of looking into the HP's because of some of the replies on this forum, I believe mostly regarding support or lack of. I will add it to my list to consider though because no smells are very important to me. Good to know about the license, I've not heard of that but it sounds like exactly what I'll be needing.

What ever you choose I would get something that you have good local support near you. If the reseller wont even provide the service for the machine, I'd stay away from them.

 

[FireSprint.com]

We did a livestream on how to choose equipment. Not really short, but you might check it out!

 

[Pauly]

Thank you for the reply! I've steered clear of looking into the HP's because of some of the replies on this forum, I believe mostly regarding support or lack of. I will add it to my list to consider though because no smells are very important to me. Good to know about the license, I've not heard of that but it sounds like exactly what I'll be needing.

I personally would take peoples experiences on a forum with a grain of salt.
Why?
Because people come to forums to complain...
One bad experience doesn't mean they're all bad.
The amount of times i've seen people sook and whine about support, or something not working, threatening companies etc, are usually the ones at fault.
You'll Also find that one person who comes to every thread and recommends the same brand over and over are usually key indications of "should i really look at that product or are they just making a hard sale"

There's a fair few people with R1000's
Get a demo and see. that's all i can say.

 

[parrott]

Pauly is spot on. Usually only people with great experiences or really bad experiences will put in the effort to add a review.

Go kick the tires and see what’s the best fit. Call a couple references and find out more about the manufacturer. If you feel comfortable, pull the trigger. There are a lot of great companies out there with some impressive equipment and are eager to partner up.

 

[GC Decor]

As Pauly Stated - 100% make sure to visit the dealer or even better visit a shop that has the equipment in action. Get onsite samples competed, Video & mailed samples are worthless. So many dealers will tell you that there machines will cut anything and will do it super fast. To truly get nice looking parts & cuts you might have to run machines slower to get a finished look.
Make sure to view the machine your going to buy, Dealers love to display there top model machines with 2-3 full rows of print heads. Even though your looking at an entry machine with one row of heads.

Equipment depreciation - Most none name brand printers and cutter loss so much value right when you buy them. Do your research & try to stick to name brands would be my advise.

Smells - This is a huge one, all dealers will say there inks don't smell. Its a complete lie, all UV printers will have some smell but others are way more noticeable. This is why onsite demos are best, when you leave UV prints sitting for a few days the smell tends to get less noticeable. Depending on your production level this might be fine but when rush jobs come in & your customers gets slapped with a pure chemical smell no one is happy. Been down this road too many times. Each Manufacturer will have different ink formulas & ink life's.

Last & Most Important - Make sure you have local support. Try calling the support hotline and see if anyone answers. I wont name names but one of the companies we bought from, raved about there amazing customer support & video support. First attempt using them it couldn't be farther from the truth, No one answers, no return calls or emails. To make it better, 4 future attempts to call & email - Still no response back.
Edit: sorry for any typos - doing this from my iPhone.

 

[Bobby H]

We have a Mimaki flatbed printer in our shop (driven by RasterLink Pro). It generally does a great job printing direct to a variety of materials. I've lost track of how many Cornhole Tournament boards we've decorated using that thing. In the few years we've had the printer we've had to have a couple service calls on it (one fairly serious call recently). The print head has a very low/close clearance to the target material. And it has a metal hood wrapped around it to block the extreme intense light of the UV lamps in the print head. So the material has to be as flat as possible. The table has a fairly powerful vacuum. Nevertheless it's not a good idea to be sloppy with how printing substrates are stored. Noticeably warped or bent material can risk a head crash. It's possible for head crashes to cause serious damage. Head crashes aren't good for any kind of large format printer, but head crashes on this kind of printer can be more costly.

About the smell, yeah it's pretty noticeable. But not the worst I've encountered from a printer. It might be a couple steps worse than our latex printers. The worst I've experienced were early solvent printers at trade shows. Holy cow those things stank bad. It was like the hair perm smell wafting out of a hair salon, but on a larger scale. We have our printer in a separate area in the shop and it is ventilated.

 

[Desert Sands]

And printing with white, better have a lot of use for that or your gonna waste a lot keeping them nozzles clean.

 

[Bobby H]

Our flatbed printer has to be left on at all times so it can continuously cycle the ink and do cleaning operations.

 

[Desert Sands]

Our flatbed printer has to be left on at all times so it can continuously cycle the ink and do cleaning operations.

Same here, but with white... gonna need to actually print, not as forgiving as the other inks.

 

[FloraUSA]

I'm about to make some BIG purchases and would greatly appreciate any feedback to help steer me in the right direction! I've scoured the forums for a few weeks now to get to this point and would be very grateful for any advice.

I currently have a 3'x2' Logojet and am looking to upgrade to a 4'x8'. I primarily print CMYK on Foamcore but would like to start doing more white once I upgrade to a faster printer. I have been leaning towards the Mimaki JFX 2513EX, for the price and also the fact the inks say they are Greenguard Ceritfied. I have also been looking at the Vanguard VR5De, but have had a bit of a rough start with simply getting information from them about the product and pricing (still waiting for a price!). I am open to any other suggestions considering my following needs.

Here are my top concerns. Printing photos on foam core (think like Smallwood signs). Right now with Logojet the full color prints have a smell once printed, and also a bit of a glare. I am wondering if there is a certain type of printer or ink that would be more suitable for printing photos so that there's no glare. I feel like if the Mimaki inks are Greenguard ceritified, they shouldn't have much of a smell once printed but I have seen complains on here of the smell, so that is a concern to me.

My other concern is workflow/RIP software. We are also adding a flatbed cutter to our workflow (I am leaning towards Colex but have also had my eyes on Summa) and it sounds like there are options when choosing RIP software (Caldera, Onyx to name a couple?) but I have zero experience with this. With my current Logojet, I use their own RIP software, and we are cutting the foam manually. I do a lot of personalized designs, so think of printing a full sheet of different designs, but all the same size. It sounds like what I'll be doing in the future then is printing registration marks on the sheets, and then loading that somehow into the cutter software? Please excuse my lack of terminiology, like I said this is all new to me!

Any advice to help steer me in the right direction regarding inks, smells, and workflow is beyond appreciated. My goal is to speed up production and minimize man hours playing with templates or software, the more streamline system the better. Thanks again!!!

Edit: I should also mention, budget isn't a huge concern, my main concern is getting the right equipment and I'll borrow whatever I need to make that happen.

I saw your post online about an interest in a flatbed printer as well as flatbed cutting solution. I am not sure exactly where you are located but we are located in Northern NJ and offer the Flora flatbed printer along with the Summa flatbed cutter. We could arrange a demonstration at our facility if you would like and you can see how the whole workflow would work under one roof. In addition to the hardware, we sell and support both SAI Photoprint as well as Onyx and all these products could be seen at one time.

I have copied a link from an installation we did with a printer down in Maryland so you can see the print speed and quality of the printer. We have numerous references we can supply to you if you would like.

Thank You



Dave Philipps

FLORA USA - AMERICAN PRINTING SYSTEMS, LLC.

105 W, Dewey Ave, Building C Suite 17

Wharton, NJ 07885

862-437-1457 x112

www.floraUSA.net



Flora USA - American Printing Systems is the official Master Distributor of Flora UV Printers in the United States.