'Need your input regarding 3M wrap combo

[Patentagosse]

What I like with hexis vs Orafol and many other print vinyls (if you ask me the Orafol/Oracal quality is just getting worse and worse) is that it is not affected as bad if you print with a lot of color and blacks on a solvent printer.

Attached is my challenging job made with "defective" 3751RA (not challenging by itself... the car was pretty simple curves... but the fact the vinyl sticks like crazy turned the installation into nightmare (and take my words, I'm really patient)

...And Oracal have terrible customer care in Europe compared to Hexis
Cannot complain 'bout customer care here in Canada. They usually stand behind their product and aren't affraid to step to the plate. 'Had an issue with a roll of reflective, 'got replacement roll, issue still there, 'got refund + apologies + 1 roll of 3551RA. I made more money with this roll than all jobs scheduled with the former 10yds of 5600 !

Attached is a few jobs we have done with HX100 Nice work!

...

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Using 3M or Avery I can install wraps with less headache in less time.
I don't have the same dilemma you do because that EASILY justifies the additional (at most) $200 material cost.
You need to reconsider your pricing if that cost difference is forcing you to use inferior tools that make your job less enjoyable and take longer.

 

[Patentagosse]

I hear you but as a matter of fact, it's not labeled on the box "crappy material inside" so 'had to try it by myself. I always had great experiences with Oracal's 3951 but as it may be a li'l too aggressive on some installations (initial tack), I was tented to try their "new lower initial tack" serie, the 3751. I have no complain regarding printability or durability (I have few big rigs done between 2005 & 2008 that are still looking very very good after all these temp changes and miles on the clock). Something happened with the migration of the ink to the adhesive and turned the application into endless extensive labour. The car was inside since 12 hours, washed, dismantled... evrything was set to start the installation when I discovered how much sticky it was. It's -20°C around here, snowy & slushy, so when you're in for a job, you go. I told myself: "OK buddy, it won't be an easy one but the job needs to be done NOW, no time or budget to reprint the whole wrap nor even the material in stock so..."

That's why, even if I'm a long-time Oracal user, I'm now shopping for something else. I know there are members that prefer 3M, some other only swear by Avery, Arlon, Hexis or other brands and that's fine, it's like blondes, brunettes or redheads...

The 1st post was about street price range... I finally got a more decent price from my 3M supplier and he even offered me a 10yds combo just to give it a try...

...and BTW, I'm only doing wraps here and there, not every day/week like most of you so I won't be any better speed-wise on my next install (I mean as long as the material performs as it's supposed too... for the rest, I'm just very meticulous so I know why my installs take so long: very picky with great expectations while limited hand-on experience... I know I'll reach my goal and offer quality wrap to the client but most of the time, it takes a li'l longer than planned.

 

[boday]

Applicator

Ace, at my shop I print 3M and Oracal side-by-side with same exact results on my Roland printer. They both print great but what I hate about 3951 it's the adhesive's initial tack. I know they changed the "pattern" recently which may help a li'l but the previous batches in past years were harder to work around tricky corners. That being said, I trust these 2 brands, they never let me down (until last job with 3751). It was sticky as hell like if solvent had migrated into adhesive, turning a "regular" job into very challenging, vinyl ripping off, major static issues...

sometimes the problem is not on the material:
problem are from:

how you dry up the print.
how you cure after lamination.
how good is your installer.

 

[Patentagosse]

So tell me how you do it... I usually let the print dry 18-24 hours, rolled loose over a grill with small fan under it to help the solvent to vent out of the tube. I rarely install right after I laminated so there's a rest time there too. The particular job described above sat for like 3 months rolled loose in a corner of my office prior the get laminated. I wasn't sure I would ever heard from the customer so I thought it would be wise to save me from laminate expenses if the whole job to be officially cancelled. After I got the call from the client, than I went to laminator. The outgasing of 3 months should have been sufficient, don't you think?

 

[BigfishDM]

If your experimenting with new cast materials you should really give my line a shot. Its MFG is by Ritrama and the full kit is a 54"x150' of 2 Mil CAST AIR RELEASE and a 54"x150' 2 Mil CAST LAMINATE for $799

 

[Patentagosse]

'would cost too much importing the rolls here in Eastern Canada. We get our combo between 839$ and 1000$, shipping included. Thanks anyway

 

[WB]

Where are you buying from? WRI should have that 3M bundle for under $1100. I'm in New Brunswick and that's roughly what I pay, most of the time it ships from TO.

I'm with your on the 3951RA.. I used it on an F550.. The sides where fine but doing the Hood was a nightmare the initial tack is way to aggressive. I ordered Hexis Cast vinyl and laminate and shipped it back after I did a few tests. I found it was did not stick as well as 3M and to me it wasn't worth the risk of a wrap come back just to save $100. I'll be sticking with 3M for now.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Are you really letting a $300 at most difference in material cost force you to spend twice as much time installing and dislike your craft?
If you can pump out the job faster and get to more money making jobs...it's a no brainer.

That's just silly if you think about it. Look at the overall picture as a business owner and not just as how much everything costs. Time is money in business.

 

[shoresigns]

Are you really letting a $300 at most difference in material cost force you to spend twice as much time installing and dislike your craft?
If you can pump out the job faster and get to more money making jobs...it's a no brainer.

That's just silly if you think about it. Look at the overall picture as a business owner and not just as how much everything costs. Time is money in business.

I totally agree. Most of the major brand bundles are within 10% price difference ($1000-1100 here), so just use whatever your installer prefers!

 

[SightLine]

Are you really letting a $300 at most difference in material cost force you to spend twice as much time installing and dislike your craft?
If you can pump out the job faster and get to more money making jobs...it's a no brainer.

That's just silly if you think about it. Look at the overall picture as a business owner and not just as how much everything costs. Time is money in business.

Exactly!!! Yeah you save some on material but if you are spending a few extra hours on install fighting the cheaper material did you really save anything? Also one that is also very important to us - the wide majority of our customers come back to us when it is time to remove graphics (for good for them to sell the vehicle or to replace). I know exactly what we are going to encounter removing 3M 180, other materials, not so much. Saw one recently (we did not produce or install it) that someone brought in for removal of a wrap that was on for just under 2 years. It was printed with Automark wrap vinyl - OMG - told them we have never worked with the material but we would quote if we could test a smallish spot on the back doors (a full size van they paid $1500 to have wrapped). It left 100% of the adhesive behind! Told them they are looking at over $1000 for the removal. They were not very happy but the guy saw the nightmare it was going to be an understood - he decided to go at it himself. In the long run, you get what you pay for.