New drying/offgassing box

[ikarasu]

Outgassing and Installing Arlon Print Media (#34) | English (EMEA) | Arlon Graphics

Arlon creates innovative materials for visual expression- pressure sensitive cast and calendered vinyl for a variety of applications.

www.arlon.com

It still amazes me that every single vinyl manufacturer spreads myths about offgassing.

You'd think one would be smart, sell their product as "no offgassing required" and rake in the millions from all the gullible people that don't understand offgassing is a myth.

 

[Johnny Best]

It is the solvents drying while the color is embedding itself into the vinyl substrate.
the industry calls it out gassing. A myth is a Unicorn:

 

[bob]

Did this at my last shop, which was primarily a wide-format printer with a lot of wholesale clients:
Cleared out a space under one of the shelving racks (12') wide and closed in the sides, put a light in it, and installed two exhaust fans (like you'd use in an attic) at the floor (because the gases from solvent prints "sink") wired to a switch. For the "doors," we used clear PVC warehouse "curtain" strips.
On an average day, there'd be 20-30 rolls in there. When we were in the midst of a bigger job, there'd be 60+. Worked great, though- if you have the space to do it.

How do you know it 'worked great'?

 

[bob]

It is the solvents drying while the color is embedding itself into the vinyl substrate.
the industry calls it out gassing. A myth is a Unicorn:

Two entirely different things. Solvents dry via evaporation, inks embedding into vinyl is a chemical reaction. Solvent evaporation happens in minutes, the other can take many days depending on just how much ink was put down. 'Outgassing' is the former, i've never heard an actual name for the latter. Regardless, it's entirely unclear if the chemical reaction is helped along by blowing air on it. I should think that these sorts of 'outgassing' appliances are much like putting a blanket on a horse. It doesn't do much for the horse but it makes you feel warm.

 

[Johnny Best]

Your right bob, it does make me feel all warm inside when I put a blanket on a Unicorn.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Outgassing, curing, fixing, drying and setting are interchangeable words in my line of work (although, I'm sure there's a pedant who will disagree). What we're all trying to get to is the point when it is safe to handle and laminate a print. I'd bet that we've all left a big, fat thumbprint on a fresh print, or have let two freshly printed faces kiss and accidentally fuse together. Giving your prints time to dry is smart, and I personally think these drying chambers are pretty cool. But how long does it take for a print to fully cure?

Orafol says "ORAFOL Americas recommends allowing printed film to dry for at least 24 hours at 70°F (48-72 hours prefered), before applying a laminate, to avoid delamination, graphic edge curling or adhesive failure."
3M's Data sheet for their IJ180 Controltac says "3M recommends at least a minimum drying time of 24 hrs before further processing. Dry the graphic unrolled or at least as a loose wound roll standing upright"

If you consult the manufacturers of the vinyls you are printing onto, you will regularly find the 24-48 hour timeframe. Now, this could be just like the warning on the back of the bottle of baby aspirin "do not take more than 4 in an hour"; just an overly cautious CYA piece of advice that they can use to avoid liability. It might not be necessary to wait that long.

In fact, the store I work at right now regularly prints and laminates things within hours, and I can attest that so far, none have disintegrated. I prefer to give them more time to set, but more often than not someone needs them right now, and we do what we have to do.

So, the short version of it is that practically you don't need to wait as long as they tell you, but you're being a professional by following the manufacturers' recommendations.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

or have let two freshly printed faces kiss and accidentally fuse together.

That can happen with fully dried ink of any type. Saw a lot of UV screen printed product get trashed from stacking it for storage. Hard to argue offgassing or not being cured when it happens to UV ink as well.

 

[gnubler]

Interesting debate. I don't print in-house and outsource most printing to S365. Orders in by midnight get shipped out the next day. They obviously aren't letting prints sit around to off-gas. Maybe they have a massive fan setup to help with drying & curing before laminating?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Interesting debate. I don't print in-house and outsource most printing to S365. Orders in by midnight get shipped out the next day. They obviously aren't letting prints sit around to off-gas. Maybe they have a massive fan setup to help with drying & curing before laminating?

No way. I'd bet that stuff goes from one machine to another on some big ass rolls or it's fed straight through, print to laminate on some sort of custom machine.

 

[victor bogdanov]

Interesting debate. I don't print in-house and outsource most printing to S365. Orders in by midnight get shipped out the next day. They obviously aren't letting prints sit around to off-gas. Maybe they have a massive fan setup to help with drying & curing before laminating?

UV or latex

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Interesting debate. I don't print in-house and outsource most printing to S365. Orders in by midnight get shipped out the next day. They obviously aren't letting prints sit around to off-gas. Maybe they have a massive fan setup to help with drying & curing before laminating?

I'm thinking that they just have a take up reel and they set their prints to the side until the assembly line can catch up with them. Probably, by the time the cutting guys get to the prints, they are safe to handle. Maybe an hour?

 

[Sign Pro Salina]

Printing too much for the old box so had to add another to keep up with the flow around here.
Made this one to comfortably hold 16 rolls if necessary. It REALLY pulls the air through, way better than the old one.
Not 100% finished yet, but it's in operation. (we are adding lettering below the "crux" later)

Nice work! I built our crude one about 12 years ago or more. On it's 2nd cheapo box fan. Now the motor in that one is going, (they run 24/7) & the cheapo retail store plastic fertilizer rack I re-purposed has broken where I added wheels on the bottom at the corners. It's time to build a completely new one. I like the way yours is set up. We also have the problem of needing more roll space at this point.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Whenever I see a box fan in a shop, I keep thinking about integrating a filter to clean shop dust out of the air. Seems weird to filter the air after it gets pulled off of the print, but air flow is air flow, right? And some of you are running your fans all the time. Wonder how it would work.

Any of you guys considered adding filters to your setup?