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[qmr55]

Constructive criticism doesn't need to be harsh at all. But sometimes you can't just say 'bad dog' you need to rub their nose in their own mess. Like I said, no sympathies from me. In college I had a professor that called me on my artsy fartsy crap, saw the huge pile of poo I threw up in front of everyone and said things that would probably make the OP cry. Did I call him a smart ***, no. I said thank you, sat down, and decided to do it all over again. That was in college ... now, I still will look at my own work and say 'hmm ... is this crap?' and if that answer is anything less than "hell no, it's awesome" I work to do better.

Throwing work up on a forum of professionals will encounter someone like me who doesn't give a flying **** about his feelings and will state things how they are. If we say it looks like a big steaming pile of donkey flop and he gets overly emotional about it ... he needs to consider another profession since customers won't put up with temper tantrums about his mediocre attempt at wowing them. And I get it ... he did the work, so it's precious to him ... but ... it's not anything special that I don't see any flea market vinyl jockey with a clipart book doing. Your own logo should try to break the mold of what you normally do and be an initial showcase to what your skills are. ... anything less ... start over ... do better ... suck it up ... and don't expect praise when you eye ball torture people with such a flop design.

I think I've been saying that since I started here on this forum, correct?

Very well said. This should be put in it's own thread in all the design corners of this forum and highlighted so everyone sees it!

 

[CES020]

But sometimes you can't just say 'bad dog' you need to rub their nose in their own mess.

Except for the fact that that method doesn't do anything to help a dog not poop where they shouldn't. Telling a dog "bad dog" or rubbing their nose in poop, after they've already done it, means nothing to them. Their brains don't work like that.

 

[SignManiac]

Cats are smarter, well more manipulative anyway.

 

[Gino]

Except for the fact that that method doesn't do anything to help a dog not poop where they shouldn't. Telling a dog "bad dog" or rubbing their nose in poop, after they've already done it, means nothing to them. Their brains don't work like that.

Well, whether or not their brains work like that, it's called training. Reinforced training is usually done by examples and rather strong ones. Training a dog or a person is not constructive criticism..... it's merely teaching... which is not what many of the people here want. They want results.... and they want them now. No one wants to take the time to learn..... just show me the right thing and I'll mimic it. I won't know why or how as to doing it, but I'm good at copying.

 

[CES020]

Well, whether or not their brains work like that, it's called training.

The only thing sticking a dogs nose in poop accomplishes is that it teaches the dog their owner is an a$$hole.

There's plenty of ways to train people and dogs without being harsh or using techniques that don't remotely qualify under any circumstance as training.

Telling someone their design sucks isn't training. I'm not suggesting that's what's happened here at all, but I'm just saying that "you suck" isn't training.

 

[FireSprint.com]

Welcome from Omaha!

 

[Gino]

The only thing sticking a dogs nose in poop accomplishes is that it teaches the dog their owner is an a$$hole.

There's plenty of ways to train people and dogs without being harsh or using techniques that don't remotely qualify under any circumstance as training.

Telling someone their design sucks isn't training. I'm not suggesting that's what's happened here at all, but I'm just saying that "you suck" isn't training.

You're taking this way off track, but you guys started it. In training, there are varying degrees, like in everything else in your life, your dog's life and your business's life. It's called association. Of course, if you shove your dog's nose in it 5 minutes later, it won't work. He has to be caught in the act and then it's called on-the-spot training.... literally. I'm sure you can figure the rest of it out on your own.

This OP has come here with some, well some rather lousy attempts, and he's being corrected on the spot. Is it harsh.... maybe to some, but in my opinion, being told up front it stinks will make me go in another direction altogether or re-think my feeble starting attempt. Soft spoken nice words will just mis-lead me and make me think there is still hope for the pile of poop I just laid by putting off the inevitable.

Ya want guidance ?? Be prepared, cause it comes in all forms. You, as the learner has one duty..... to pull from all the forms of criticism and use the information to the best of your ability and not get bent out of shape of the messenger.

 

[CES020]

Of course, if you shove your dog's nose in it 5 minutes later, it won't work. He has to be caught in the act and then it's called on-the-spot training.... literally.

Since we're all about "the training" around here and being "certified" in things, show me where one professional dog trainer recommends sticking your dogs nose in fecal matter as a method to "train" them.

Yeah, I didn't think so. I understand your point Gino, but I think the person used the wrong analogy.

What many people fail to understand is that people learn different. Some people deal well with harsh criticisms, some don't. There is no one size fits all when it comes to training, but I assume you know that.

 

[Guillaume]

The ampersand looks like the Acrobat logo for me.. well in a not looking good version

 

[Gino]

I agree, I don't think shoving one's nose in their work is quite the appropriate approach, but it is better than sugar coating something and letting the student think nothing is critically wrong.

Whether or not you are involved with formulating a newbie or teaching a child not to cross the street without looking both ways... to not putting his/her hand on a hot stove top.... you must in most situations act quickly, which isn't always the nicest of ways, but it's still effective.

In this thread, no one's life is being threatened, but it is most obviously a complete novice in design and most likely the sign industry compared to most professionals. It's evident by the pictures, verbiage and amount of knowledge [or lack of] being displayed. The only knowledge this OP seems to have is...... use of the internet.

He comes here among all levels of the industry and asks for 'Critique'. While it's quite evident he needs more than critiquing, he needs to learn, which one doesn't do by telling off the very people he has come to for help, to shut up and listen. When you were in school and you were talking out of turn in class..... did your teacher say..... Johnny, shut up and stop disturbing the class ?? Yeah, I thought so.

Anyway, how do you nicely tell someone, new or old, their thoughts or designs are total crap ?? Wanna play pretend like back in second grade or be an adult and tell them squarely... it's terrible, start over and forget that abortion you just created ?? Mincing words can be quite confusing as witnessed many times over on this forum. Sometimes the most direct route can hurt your feelings or pride a little bit, but I promise you.... you won't be making the same mistake over again. A good strong person will listen, pick themselves up, move forward and learn from the ghastly mistakes.

 

[SuncitySigns]

Its great too see how threads just turn into sh*%t storms within a couple coments......got to love the net.