New Mutoh 1324 not printing as good as my old 1204

[Rat_Fink]

Just purchased a new Mutoh 1324 from Sign Specialists (great people to work with - by the way).
I have it set up and running, but the prints are not as good as my old 1204.

Here is the rundown...
Same exact file with no changes to the colors, same material - 3M IJ35 Gloss.
New printer Mutoh 1324, Still using Flexi, but had to go from 8.6 up to 10.5 to support the printer.

All colors have a grainy / speckled look to them. You can see speckles of white in the black.
The 1204 would print a dense, rich black where this printer is printing more of a very dark gray. It almost has a washed out look when placed next to an old print.

I always used the Oracal 3651 G profile as my standard and it still gets the best prints out of the new machine so far, but still not as good as the 1204.

Take a look at the attached photo and see if you can see what I mean. The left side is a print from the new 1324 and the right is a print from my 1204.
I'm trying to figure out if I should keep trying other profiles or if it is possibly a calibration/adjustment needed on the machine or possibly a setting in Flexi.

Thanks for any advice you might have.
Mike

 

[rjssigns]

No Mutoh expert, but I'd say the issue lies in the software upgrade. Going from 8.x to 10.x would be the culprit IMO.

 

[Jester1167]

Dot gain, your heater setting are too low.

Let me modify that.

Your putting ink down faster than the heaters can stabilize it. Options, turn up the heaters, slow down the head speed, more passes (less ink per pass), or use less ink (total ink limits). This typically happens in medium to dark colors where you get the fish-eye look. the ink puddles and is drawn towards some unknown leaving areas of light and dark.

 

[allstarbysallee]

1204 issues

My 1204 seems to be really inconsistent. It will print fine one time, and horrible the next. we've been through everything!!! Could it be a heater problem also?

 

[Rat_Fink]

I upped the heat and it did seem to help with the fisheye a bit, but the black is still slightly off.
Not nearly as much of a dense, pure black I used to get out of my 1204.

It also seemed to bring out some slight banding.

 

[J Hill Designs]

to confirm: are you printing to your old printer with the new version of flexi as well?

 

[Rat_Fink]

to confirm: are you printing to your old printer with the new version of flexi as well?

I'm sorry - I forgot to mention that I no longer have the 1204.
I do have several samples that I have printed from it that I am using as comparison.
Thanks!

 

[J Hill Designs]

check input profiles, rendering intent, etc

 

[Jester1167]

I assume your new printer is a lot faster and I think that is what is causing a lot your problems. Too much heat can start to cause the banding. Do you have a picture?

I am not familiar with Mutoh but it can't be that much different from most other inkjets. I wouldn't print below 8 pass 720ppi x 720ppi for the type of decals you are attempting to print. Faster print speeds use larger drops of ink in fewer passes and the heaters cant keep up on glossy material.

Your pre heater and print temperature don't need to be cranked to the max. If it is, it may be causing the banding by changing the advance. Try setting it between 30c and 35c or reset how much the media advances to minimize the banding at that preheat/print temperature. You should max out the post print heater if you have one.

Some banding can be caused by the bi-directional printing if you don't have it dialed in (fuzzy edges/ halo effect). If your in a bind and have to get the prints out, try printing them uni-directional. This will do several things, give the ink more time to dry between passes and you won't get banding from improperly set bi-directional printing.

 

[h82loose]

Try a different profile. You will want to use a profile created in Q4 high speed 720x1440. The profile you are using is 720x720. I do not like the profiles Oracal created on this machine. I had a customer that made the same exact move and the same exact complaint. When I corrected the profile he was amazed at the quality. You will not loose any speed with this profile. If you are printing a heavy solid, I would use fineFog 3.

 

[Rat_Fink]

Try a different profile. You will want to use a profile created in Q4 high speed 720x1440. The profile you are using is 720x720. I do not like the profiles Oracal created on this machine. I had a customer that made the same exact move and the same exact complaint. When I corrected the profile he was amazed at the quality. You will not loose any speed with this profile. If you are printing a heavy solid, I would use fineFog 3.

Thanks for the reply - Do you have a specific profile that you can suggest or should I just stick with the Oracal and go with the 720x1440 (I ask because you said you didn't really like the Oracal profiles).
I tried the 3M, but the Oracal looked slightly better.

Thanks again!

 

[Rat_Fink]

I switched to the oracal 720x1440 like suggested in the last post and that seemed to do the trick.
Prints look much better and the colors are much more vivid and solid. I'll be doing more experimenting, but looks like I'm on the right track!
Thanks for the help everyone - I really appreciate it!

 

[utmtech]

I have noticed specifically that using any effect with fog enabled on these units really helps with banding and light inconsistent blacks.

 

[altereddezignz]

same type off issue. I know this is old if i may ask. Black looks great. Avery 1005 EZRS. 1324 printer. VJ1324 Avery 1005 ez profile. temps from 46-47-50 to 44-46-50 no change. Looks speckled and has bands.. Not massive bands but you can see them.
I did print on accident using the oracal 720x1440 profile and it printed amazing but i guess ink was just a tad still wet when it was rolled up on the takeup b/c it left spots in all of the black and on the backing of the material it was rolled up on.

Black was set to 60-60-60-100 mix so may have been just to much ink there. I may not have had an issue if it would have just been a 0-0-0-100 mix.

Since you have the 1324 and had some issue was curious if you could help?

 

[MagnetStew]

Using the same profile?

 

[altereddezignz]

Here is where i am at now..
Using the newsest VJ-1324 avery EZRS profile from mutoh website since avery doesnt have one on thier website. Turned temps down to 40-42-50. Q4 High speed. Fine Fog 3 Bidirectional.
Banding is gone but still looks somewhat speckled when looking at it under 2 ft. The black looks amazing. No banding and no speckles but again it is printed using 60-60-60-100 CMYK mixture.
When i use the oracal profile i get AMAZING color and coverage but looks to be just a little to thick so it does not dry by the time it gets to the take up roll.

 

[altereddezignz]

And for some reason i have this look to the yellow and it is 0-0-100-0 mix.

 

[LEGEND]

And for some reason i have this look to the yellow and it is 0-0-100-0 mix.

Try using profile for the 3M IJ180CV3, that one usually works best as a "go-to" default profile on our VJ1624.

 

[jaylem]

rich black

I upped the heat and it did seem to help with the fisheye a bit, but the black is still slightly off.
Not nearly as much of a dense, pure black I used to get out of my 1204.

It also seemed to bring out some slight banding.

It sounds like there is something in the RIP. I recently purchased a 1324 w/ the flexi and it prints a super rich black when I use the default black in flexi. I have been designing in RGB per the tech suggestion. I do have problems getting the rich black when I design in PS or AI and open in flexi to print.

 

[altereddezignz]

So things have been pringint decent. Yesterday i have a client that wants a good nice clean yellow on a large decal that also has green and black in it. So i print it on the same profile i always use the vj1324_flex_orajet3165g_ultra_720. Changing the quality from Graphics 4 to Quality for and turning the heat to 41-43-50, Fine fuzz 2. Yellows print with bad bad dots in them that all look green. So i go back and double check my design. Sure enough i am at CMYK 0/0/100/0????? My red also looks bad as if it has a million little bitty fish eyes in it but really really tiny.

I try what i read on trying the vj-1324 3m ij180v3 720x1440 high speed temps are at 44-46-50 on this profile Well my yellow looks amazing now but the black looks washed out and has the same looking tiny tiny fish eyes and the red looks ok but looks as it has a lot of more noticeable specs of other colors in it along with the tiny tiny fish eyes.

I try changing to Quality 2 so that it is printing 1440x1440 and stupid slow. Well for the most part it all looks good but not great. I know that using the 1440x1440 has put on to much ink but i had to get a good sample out and can work out the kinks before the customer orders.

Medea has not changed as it is still the oracal 3165RA. I thought maybe a bad roll of media even tho i have not had this issue from the start of the roll so i test printed on a few scrap pieces that i had laying around of the last roll of media i had with no luck..

So back at the drawing board AGAIN.. Me and this printer have an amazing love hate relationship. Every day i love to hate it even more.

Did another head soak and a couple cleaning with no luck. What is crazy is i have a nozzle on cyan that dropping in and out yet i can print cyan at 100 and it looks amazing no matter the profile...

I did tests with all colors at 100% each on each profile just to test.