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I now what you mean, stress out about outputting beautiful graphics and then the customer hardly looks at it.
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New Printer Research
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I now what you mean, stress out about outputting beautiful graphics and then the customer hardly looks at it.
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We notice everything prints much better on matte. Would that file have printed as nicely on gloss material?
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
Yes, its all in the profile and preset. We typically print to matte and laminate gloss but all of our wrap films are gloss and it prints just like this.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
BTW I'm not trying to say latex is the perfect solution, but as someone who has run them for 10 years they are great machines and our ROI has been through the roof. Our L25500 did over $1 mil worth of work before retiring our current 570's have done well over a $1 mil worth of work in the last 16 months. The caveat here is we are looking to add solvent to the mix for a few reasons: Specialty printing (Metallics / White) and also the super huge color gamut so we can hit troublesome pantones for the Latex.
HulkSmash
New Member
Let me say it again. I've LITERALLY owned almost every printer listed here - and nothing comes close to HP in terms of COST to output ratio. The no cure time alone is just worth so much. As mentioned above, people set crazy standards that most clients don't expect.. and if they do.. i seriously don't want them. I live in a realistic world. The HP is just without a doubt the industry LEADER in every type of printer from small format to grand format.
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Really appreciate all of the feedback from everybody. While the no cure time for latex is very enticing, I think we will go in the direction of an epson s80600.
So the next step will be to determine which rip software to go with. Leaning towards Onyx right now but still need to research our options there.
Since we have a few months until we will really need the additional printer, we think we are going to purchase a new plotter beforehand. Our current plotter (gx500) is a 54" plotter, but only has about 47" cutting area which is a real pain for print/cut jobs. Since 48" media isn't as available or cost effective as 54", we end up having to keep print/cut jobs under 47" wide on 54" material and trim about 6" off in order to put it on the plotter. So a 64" plotter will save us quite a bit of material and time.
Pretty much set on getting a summa T160 with opos cam. Added accuracy on long cuts, better cut quality will all be welcomed, but really excited about flex cutting. Never had any luck with roland perf cut.
So if we purchase this plotter before a new printer we will have to start using onyx (or other rip) in order to do print/cut with the roland/summa? Is that correct? Shouldn't be too bad, will have to learn the new rip eventually anyway. And after looking into it, seems there may be more functionality outside of versaworks.
If anybody can shed some light on pros/cons between the available rips for our future workflow (epson/summa) that would be great! Also there is a good deal offered on grimco's website right now for the epson printers. Should I expect the same type of discount to be available in a few months?
So the next step will be to determine which rip software to go with. Leaning towards Onyx right now but still need to research our options there.
Since we have a few months until we will really need the additional printer, we think we are going to purchase a new plotter beforehand. Our current plotter (gx500) is a 54" plotter, but only has about 47" cutting area which is a real pain for print/cut jobs. Since 48" media isn't as available or cost effective as 54", we end up having to keep print/cut jobs under 47" wide on 54" material and trim about 6" off in order to put it on the plotter. So a 64" plotter will save us quite a bit of material and time.
Pretty much set on getting a summa T160 with opos cam. Added accuracy on long cuts, better cut quality will all be welcomed, but really excited about flex cutting. Never had any luck with roland perf cut.
So if we purchase this plotter before a new printer we will have to start using onyx (or other rip) in order to do print/cut with the roland/summa? Is that correct? Shouldn't be too bad, will have to learn the new rip eventually anyway. And after looking into it, seems there may be more functionality outside of versaworks.
If anybody can shed some light on pros/cons between the available rips for our future workflow (epson/summa) that would be great! Also there is a good deal offered on grimco's website right now for the epson printers. Should I expect the same type of discount to be available in a few months?
The sale price is an Epson promotion that is running right now. It is highly unlikely it will still be in place in a few months. https://epson.com/surecolor-s-serie...rm=&utm_content=0319&utm_campaign=us-s-series
I have not used any RIP but Onyx. We chose it when we got our first printer, a Mimaki JV3, because our dealer recommended it and it was the plug-in that worked with Sign Wizard, which we were already using. Onyx makes the lite version RIP that comes with Epsons, so I stuck with it when we got our S70670. So, while I cannot compare it to other RIPs, I can say it works well and is easy to use, though somewhat opaque to set up at first if you don't have any help. We started with it long enough ago that it came with actual books you could look things up in. The online help that everything comes with nowadays is more +/-. Sometimes you find what you are looking for, sometimes not.
I have not used any RIP but Onyx. We chose it when we got our first printer, a Mimaki JV3, because our dealer recommended it and it was the plug-in that worked with Sign Wizard, which we were already using. Onyx makes the lite version RIP that comes with Epsons, so I stuck with it when we got our S70670. So, while I cannot compare it to other RIPs, I can say it works well and is easy to use, though somewhat opaque to set up at first if you don't have any help. We started with it long enough ago that it came with actual books you could look things up in. The online help that everything comes with nowadays is more +/-. Sometimes you find what you are looking for, sometimes not.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
Both the roland and Summa have software that you can setup print/cuts outside of the main rip so you shouldn't have to be tied to your rip. That said we like Onyx it has worked well for us, Caldera is also awesome and if you are in a MAC environment or don't mind virtual machines/linux may be the way to go. There are other RIPs out there but I have little no experience outside of Flexi which is good to an extent.
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So did some more digging around about the discounts offered now. Summa also has a pretty nice one going right now, $1,500 I believe. From what I can find out the discount from Epson has been around and most likely will be in a few months. It may be in a different form, perhaps less $ but also include a full inkset. However what I am finding is that the summa discount is less common and will probably be gone after April. Does this seem accurate?
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Going to pull the trigger on summa T-160. Just not sure if we need the OPOS CAM? Have read some where that Opos X has trouble reading cropmarks on some reflective and specialty vinyls. Sales rep says he's heard that too, but has never had a customer (t160 owner) have an issue with it. He recommends we don't need it and that out of all the summas he's sold only 2 have had opos cam. Has anyone experienced issues on their opos x machines not reading marks?
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
we have no issues with OPOS-X, but I will say we plan on upgrading to OPOS Cam for speed and efficiency and it also links to the flatbeds to increase efficiency in a few areas too if you plan on getting a flatbed in the future.
Cure times are a toothless tiger with solvent printing you guys need to get a Digi-dri Infered heater and wait time problem solved. Bake it as it comes out the printer, laminate it and kick it out the door immediately it just speeds up the natural process to where the prints are dry on the spot. 1,2,6-24hrs isn't needed at all.
Here is a link to retail prices on heaters: https://www.allsquare.com/digi-drytm-120v-digital-print-dryer.html
Here is a link to a 64 in one on eBay that ends in an hour that would work great with the 64 inch epson. $325 is cheap! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digi-Dri-6...024982?hash=item4b6326a816:g:D7AAAOSwUOlctNR~
The S80600 will be an excellent choice of a printer, you will be very very happy with the output.
Those Epson prices are the same prices they have shown online for years. There are a few dealers who will beat those prices but be prepared for most dealers to be at the same price point due to Epson being strict about pricing. You should be able to buy the Epson below those prices though especially if they are a "Demo".
The Summa cutters can be a little love hate on their crop marks. We had some issues with it reading their little marks years ago with gloss laminate. We had to use a black sharpie marker and re-color the marks sometimes but not all the time. When we tried to use the barcode feature not reading the marks would negate that feature. Maybe there is a way to make the crop marks larger now? I don't know.
The OPOS Camera model is great but you got some software added in, image grabber cable and a few other things that are definitely different including file prep sometimes. It's very accurate once working but if you are cutting one job at a time and not cutting thousands of decals the hassle may not be worth it. The OPOS Camera is dead on accurate but if the roll drifts during cutting it can stop everything and throw an error if you want to cut overnight.
Just know Summa will send you with minimal pinch rollers and you often times find you have to buy more after you get the cutter at several hundred a pop.
Here is a link to retail prices on heaters: https://www.allsquare.com/digi-drytm-120v-digital-print-dryer.html
Here is a link to a 64 in one on eBay that ends in an hour that would work great with the 64 inch epson. $325 is cheap! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digi-Dri-6...024982?hash=item4b6326a816:g:D7AAAOSwUOlctNR~
The S80600 will be an excellent choice of a printer, you will be very very happy with the output.
Those Epson prices are the same prices they have shown online for years. There are a few dealers who will beat those prices but be prepared for most dealers to be at the same price point due to Epson being strict about pricing. You should be able to buy the Epson below those prices though especially if they are a "Demo".
The Summa cutters can be a little love hate on their crop marks. We had some issues with it reading their little marks years ago with gloss laminate. We had to use a black sharpie marker and re-color the marks sometimes but not all the time. When we tried to use the barcode feature not reading the marks would negate that feature. Maybe there is a way to make the crop marks larger now? I don't know.
The OPOS Camera model is great but you got some software added in, image grabber cable and a few other things that are definitely different including file prep sometimes. It's very accurate once working but if you are cutting one job at a time and not cutting thousands of decals the hassle may not be worth it. The OPOS Camera is dead on accurate but if the roll drifts during cutting it can stop everything and throw an error if you want to cut overnight.
Just know Summa will send you with minimal pinch rollers and you often times find you have to buy more after you get the cutter at several hundred a pop.
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We've had the summa t160 opos X for about a month now. Setup was pretty straight forward and issue free. Cutter is impressive to say the least, incredibly fast and smooth cuts. No more incomplete cuts in corners and weeds easier too. Flex cut works as well, haven't played with it too much yet. Still getting used to onyx and kindof in limbo between versa and onyx due to color output. Only issue we've really had is the little screen on the cutter has frozen up twice and our only option was to reboot the cutter and the issue went away. happened during setups not while working so didn't screw any work up.. Not sure what to make of that.
Getting ready now to pull the trigger on an epson printer in the next couple of days. We had been on the fence between the s60 and s80. After getting print samples from both today, we are going to go with the s80. The light black ink alone to me is worth giving up 35% faster print speed to the 60. The grays and black/white images on the 60 look like our roland, just with no banding and more clarity, muddy looking pinkish instead of gray. The grays off the s80 looked flawless, what I've always tried to get our roland to produce. Other than the grays you could pick out some brighter and deeper pantones from the 80 over the 60 but that didn't impress me as much as the grays. Having white ink will also expand our capabilities in house to boot.
Couple of questions. Has anybody ever used 100 yard rolls on their epson surecolors? Can they handle the weight?
I've read of people putting cleaning carts in place of the white or metallic ink on the s80s. If we decided not to use the orange and red ink in the s80 could we put cleaning carts in instead?
Getting ready now to pull the trigger on an epson printer in the next couple of days. We had been on the fence between the s60 and s80. After getting print samples from both today, we are going to go with the s80. The light black ink alone to me is worth giving up 35% faster print speed to the 60. The grays and black/white images on the 60 look like our roland, just with no banding and more clarity, muddy looking pinkish instead of gray. The grays off the s80 looked flawless, what I've always tried to get our roland to produce. Other than the grays you could pick out some brighter and deeper pantones from the 80 over the 60 but that didn't impress me as much as the grays. Having white ink will also expand our capabilities in house to boot.
Couple of questions. Has anybody ever used 100 yard rolls on their epson surecolors? Can they handle the weight?
I've read of people putting cleaning carts in place of the white or metallic ink on the s80s. If we decided not to use the orange and red ink in the s80 could we put cleaning carts in instead?