newbie, flatbed maintenance question

[artbot]

i'm heading off to SGIA to get a look at all the different flatbed configurations. whatever i decided looks right for my business, i'll try to find an older used, version of the same.

that said,

i'm curious about the "capping" set ups for these machines. from what i can see, they don't have a solvent style capping station. maybe it's more about keeping light away from the heads?

my concern is that whatever machine style i choose, using the machine on and off over a month will be unavoidable. such as for a week, i may be designing and in meetings. then print like mad for two days, then the printer will sit for 5-10 days dormant.

how would one go about this with a flatbed? i've seen three way "stop-cock" style bulkheads that can feed cleaning fluid to the head individually. but with these cleaning systems, can the head be purged of ink, while leaving ink in the lines for extended periods of time?

with my on and off use, is there particular cleaning station or "capping" station set up that i should be looking for or studying? so even if the printer i choose doesn't have such a set up, maybe i can just fab one, or build a seal, etc to accommodate?

thanks in advance.

 

[miker]

On the Vutek's you can purge solvent into the heads and let it sit.

On the GS series the solvent is merely ink with no pigment. We have to do this purge for the white channel and heads because the white pigment is heavier and will settle in the head, even though the main and secondary tanks have recirculation systems.

On the older PV and QS series I believe the solvent is a different chemical makeup than the ink, but you can perform the same process as to not leave ink in the heads.

 

[www.esigns.com]

I would want a printer that completely automates capping and solvent cleaning \ purging.

On our Gandi, it does a good job purging - solvent lines are wired in, and you can purge all (or selected) heads with a click of the button. On a vutek, you have to manually connect a solvent purging tube to the head, and purge only 1 at a time (although it may be all you need, but an option to "think less purge all at once" is nice)

we were told not to play with solvent too too much - lines and filters designed for ink, and pronloged solvent presence \ flushing practices may soften the lines (gets thinner then in cools?) and shorten life of the filters.

Also, we were told that some printers (like Gandi) maintain negative pressure to keep ink from dripping... so if not capped, or if in dusty env., it will evantually suck the dust in (and almost never recover)

Gandi does capping pretty nasty - at hard presses the capper in, that causes frequent need to align \ adjust heads.

Vutek does it very nice with a tiny gap that is always there so it is easier and more trouble free.

 

[SignManiac]

On my HP FB950, the printer does it's own automatic purging/cleaning cycle, etc. as long as you have power to the machine.

 

[MikePro]

good luck with the research! if you can't make up your mind, there's always ISA in Vegas this spring... where I will also be hoping to decide on my first flatbed purchase!
First beer is on me!

 

[rfulford]

If you have to leave the machine off for more than overnight. I would look closely at how much ink you have to purge in order to fill the heads with solvent. Be sure you can purge the heads at all for that matter. It would be nice if the printer had some type of night cover but you can probably rig something up yourself. As you already said, one of the biggest risk to your print heads comes from stray light.

 

[www.esigns.com]

I doubt that any little shop light that will sneak in will ever made ink dry. In fact gandi was once suggesting not to cap heads and they were completely exposed a lot with no issues. I think it is dirt and fine dust sticking to the heads and being sucked into is the major issue for some uv printers, not the shop light or even its own uv lamps (usually spaced, shielded, and muted then not active)

 

[artbot]

well it doesn't sound quite as bad as i read in some large-format-printers.org article. one reason for not sealing the the heads off may be oxygen inhibition. ...the presence of oxygen can keep initiators from kicking over. i experimented with a uv vanish in my jv3 two years ago and didn't even think of the possibility that it would cure inside of the transparent lines due to the lack of oxygen mixed with an over head fluorescent bulb. in the end, i could make money with the most troublesome flatbed. what concerns me is machines with so many heads... an operator really needs to make sure they stay fresh or the repair could "total" the printer.

again thanks for so much input. us guys without flatbeds (at least for me) think of the flatbed owners as kind of the "top fuel" guys. really appreciate all the information.

 

[www.esigns.com]

We run our gandi heads through a lot of abuse and less than perfect care and replaced 10 heads in 2 years ($2.5 from dealer, $1k from china)

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

We run our gandi heads through a lot of abuse and less than perfect care and replaced 10 heads in 2 years ($2.5 from dealer, $1k from china)

Spectra heads from China????? 10 heads in 2 years ??? Abuse or poor use?

Spectra heads are made in USA cost is about $1150 each.

2 jeti 3150's run pretty much 24/6. 4 years now and 4 heads replaced total.

Vutek seiko heads run about $3500 each. 2 qs and a qsr roll to roll. 3 jetpacks replaced total in 3 years.

 

[SignManiac]

Only one head here in 2.5 years. But... Not high volume printer.

 

[animenick65]

On the Vutek's you can purge solvent into the heads and let it sit.

On the GS series the solvent is merely ink with no pigment. We have to do this purge for the white channel and heads because the white pigment is heavier and will settle in the head, even though the main and secondary tanks have recirculation systems.

On the older PV and QS series I believe the solvent is a different chemical makeup than the ink, but you can perform the same process as to not leave ink in the heads.

VUTEk experienced large amounts of coagulation in the field due to the solvent they were using. They found that when it collided with ink, it would form clumps and you can imagine what they do to jets, final filters and secondary ink tanks. Hence the new maintenance fluid chemistry as well as the lack of solvent lines and manual flushing requirements.

 

[artbot]

this is probably best for a different thread... seems like flatbeds are a more interesting topic than "banding" and the threads drift.... so that said...

esigns cued me into and i also read in another thread (on print planet) that the vuteks had some pretty tough ink ID chips. 3rd party ink manufacturers (like triangle) provide work arounds...when did the chip ID show up in the model line up (200's, 320's, 2000's?) and really for that matter off all these printers, are they all chipped?

 

[animenick65]

this is probably best for a different thread... seems like flatbeds are a more interesting topic than "banding" and the threads drift.... so that said...

esigns cued me into and i also read in another thread (on print planet) that the vuteks had some pretty tough ink ID chips. 3rd party ink manufacturers (like triangle) provide work arounds...when did the chip ID show up in the model line up (200's, 320's, 2000's?) and really for that matter off all these printers, are they all chipped?

We only use VUTEk ink in our VUTEks due to our ESP contract. We provide spent male ink couplings and tubes to a couple of companies that will reuse them in third party ink containers. I can put you in touch with someone who seems to have mastered this process for his own printing department with VUTEks.

 

[artbot]

that would be great. a used vutek is probably first on my list. so they are all chipped all the way back to the 200s?

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

We are currently Beta testing new Sericol ink for the QS. They have there own RFID caps/chips on the ink that work perfect. Ink is great also...

 

[www.esigns.com]

Yes, 10 heads. Recent problems with Gandi\Agfa ink killed 6 heads alone in 1 swoop. Sericol Magenta ink issues killed another 2 so far. So 2 left for the tear and wear. What surpirses you? I'm sure if you used Gandi ink you had to expereince the same.

I dont care there the heads are made. Spectra heads will cost you $2500 from the dealer (agfa), or $1000 from chineese vendors shipping from over seas.

Vutek GS heads are $6k from Vutek.

Spectra heads from China????? 10 heads in 2 years ??? Abuse or poor use?

Spectra heads are made in USA cost is about $1150 each.

2 jeti 3150's run pretty much 24/6. 4 years now and 4 heads replaced total.

Vutek seiko heads run about $3500 each. 2 qs and a qsr roll to roll. 3 jetpacks replaced total in 3 years.

 

[www.esigns.com]

Biggest ink difference on Gandi will be it has ink tanks there you pour the ink in. It does not use cartridges, chips, or anything else.

 

[ForgeInc]

I would assume you want white in your flatbed, that said I might stay away from Agfas as I hear the white constantly plugs up. We have an HP FB 700 and like sign maniac said, it too has a consistent clean/purge cycle.

Pretty new machines though so I doubt you'll find a used one. The smaller FB500 or a used 9500 might be worth a look.

 

[johnnysigns]

Our flatbed runs 5 to 6 days a week has always performed it's best when it was run consistently.