Newbie looking for experts advise and suggestions on Printers

[garylisko]

Hello all.. I am new to the forum. I'm fairly new to the trade (approx 1 1/2 in) I started out on a Roland Cm24 cutter, served me well. I am interested in expanding. I'm getting a personal loan from a family member tomorrow. About $9,000 Im interested in buying a printer. Either Printer/Cutter or a printer & a cutter? Not sure which is the best choice? In my research so far, I find Roland always comes out ahead when it comes to the best of the best. Being that I'm on a $9k limit, Im seeking help on the best decision & model printers to look farther into. At signwarehouse, I was offered a "PrismJET VJ48" for around $10,000 new. Like anyone else, I'm looking for the most for my money. Would it be wiser for me to buy used/good condition better quality printer & have $ left over for materials and inventory? Or go all out on something new? I know this site is tough on newbies, but I will accept any criticism I receive the right advise to help make a better decision. What I'm mostly interested in is a quality printer, that has a respectable speed, obviously better on ink would be helpfull. The less complicated to use the better as I will admit now, I have a long way ahead before I can classify myself as a professional or expert. I live near Pittsburgh PA if anyone is close to me & has a printer to offer in my price range or any advise.
I appreciate your time.

 

[Redwave Signs]

I bought a used 30" Versacamm a few years ago. The only bad thing I can say ... I wish I would have bought the 54"
I am hoping to upgrade this year.

 

[petesign]

I guess you would do well to tell us what kind of work you are currently doing. If you don't plan on doing a *lot* of printing you would be better off subbing your work out. Just saying.. I would definitely recommend something like a 54" printer... if you go smaller, you will regret it.. another thing you need is a laminator. And don't get something cheap there either.

first thing you should do, buy a laminator, sub out your prints, laminate in house, and use your laminator to mount signs to substrates. once you get the hang of that, and have saved enough to buy a good printer.. buy one. If you buy a cheap printer (OR LAMINATOR FOR THAT MATTER -- SEARCH FOR DAIGE) you are going to REALLY regret it.

 

[10sacer]

Really depends upon your expected volume. If you are starting slow then an all-in-one print/cut solution will be fine. As you get busier - you will hate waiting on one job to finish cutting while waiting for the next one to start printing.

I would look at offline cutting with a Graphtec or similar - avoid the knock-offs at this point. Nothing better than spooling up an entire job over night and coming in the next morning to cut it all out. Caveat - I don't recommend doing this until you are thoroughly in tune with your particular equipment and have the utmost confidence in its ability to perform unattended.

Spend the $400 and go to ISA next month - everybody under the sun will be there and there are really good show deals.

You said you only had $9000 and were tossing about having money left for consumables - uhhh.. you're gonna need those, which may answer your first question. Is there someone near you you can partner with who can use your printing and you can use their cutting?

 

[Custom_Grafx]

Look for a used SP 300V and outsource anything wider than 30".

Consider a 1300mm manual lam/mounting machine for $800 brand new.

Should be able to find both together for around 7 or 8K in good condition.

Then you need a few hundred for 30" media and a couple hundred for lam, should just about be around 9k or under 10k.

 

[bigsign]

Check out this web site:http://solventprinterconversion.com/

 

[Jillbeans]

I live about 10 miles from you and I would suggest saving your money and outsourcing your prints.
Our market is pretty much flooded, and our locals are pretty much cautious about newfangled things like wraps or anything they perceive as being expensive.
I've been in signs 26 years and in Butler county 22.
When I got here there were a lot of established companies, most of with whom I became friends. In the past 22 years I have seen newbs come and go, many plotters for sale, and lots of new competition who know jack about pricing or layout, who pollute the area with ugly signs and "graphix", and drive a pricing structure down which has taken the "real" shops years to build.
Living near Lernerville, you'll mainly get all the racer types who are too cheap to go to Flinner.
I'm telling this to you for your own good, to save you $9000, not in a mean spirited way.
And if you're the guy who takes my cards down at Trader Horn, hey buy the printer.

Love.....Jill

 

[AUTO-FX]

Whatever you do, make sure you get a decent laminator! Been there! I blew a bunch of money on materials back when I only had a Daige quickmount. I'll bet I burned up between 300 and 500 $ plus my time trying to get jobs laminated with that hunk of junk.

 

[FatCat]

Great advice (as always) from the other members. I was in your shoes a few years ago and I can tell you it is a slippery slope. That $10k printer from SW is a good deal, but realize you're going to need RIP software to run it as well as a computer and more than likely a cutter and a laminator. I would also suggest buying the media take up roller (not included) which is another $1500. All told you'll probably have over $20k just to get started with new equipment the "right" way.

Otherwise, you can buy something used and hope that it is in good condition. If you don't have a lot of experience working on wide format solvent printers you'll find that they require lots of maintenance and need to keep printing to keep them running right. A printer that sits idle could result in dried up heads, clogging problems, etc. None of which are any fun or cheap to fix. (The cost for a new head on that SW printer is $1800 alone - which doesn't include installation.)

Do yourself a favor and sub out your prints to one of the Merchant Members here. Once you're consistently selling $5k-$10k worth of printed stuff a month then it's time to look at getting the hardware yourself.

 

[wolf]

Do what I did. Find a used Fj50 in good condition then flush the inks
change the 2 heads (less than $300 for 2) change the capping
station and dampers. no need to change ink lines. Then buy
3 silicone tape heAters, a couple of simmer stat switches to control
the heat and silicone these in place using heat proof silicone.
You can contact me if you like and ill tell you where to stick them
or buy a heater kit from dave the link is above.

Use only Roland inks so your cutting can work on a roland cutter.

all up if you look around this complete setup ready to print
eco solvent inks can cost you less than $3500.

only issue is printing is slow but prints great.

be warned with what you buy. The main issue you will
face is replacing the print heads which can cost you about $800
each compared with $300 inc delivery for the2 required printheads
the roland fj50 needs. With remaining money you can buy a gx 24 and media.

good luck with it.

joe

 

[Jillbeans]

Thanks for the PM.
No I did not steal your signs or flyers.
I'm thinking because the signs were illegally posted, it might have been the township.
If yours was the flyer I saw at Trader Horn...well, no I'm not worried about your competition whatsoever.

 

[laserman70]

Thanks for the PM.
No I did not steal your signs or flyers.
I'm thinking because the signs were illegally posted, it might have been the township.
If yours was the flyer I saw at Trader Horn...well, no I'm not worried about your competition whatsoever.

Jill has no worries of competition.
Her work speaks for itself. I do not think she would steal anything.
Not to cool to be accusing people of stealing after 1 post on here.

 

[petesign]

I just had Saltine dust shoot out of my nose. THanks Jill! LMAO.

 

[BigfishDM]

You can get a 42" HP-L25500 Latex machine for $7900.00

 

[garylisko]

I was offered a roland sp300v for $7500 good condition about 500 hours on it, new inks. Can I hear some more opinions on that model? I apologize for whatever drama got brought on here. I'm here for help, not to be accused of taking signs down. I have no interest in ruining someones hard earned establishment as I'm working towards my own right now.

 

[10sacer]

$5 - $10K a month is low to be considering buying your own stuff.
You had better be in the $15 - $25K range before considering this.
I waited til I was in the $50 - $65K range and it got too much to juggle amongst multiple wholesalers and outsource guys. Now I don't drive all over the place - I am just in my shop 14 hours a day.
The hidden costs of ownership will eat away however much stockpiled cash you may have pretty quickly no matter what entry point you can afford.

Other guys are right, though - utilize whatever outsource options you have until it gets to be a pain and save, save, save your money so you can afford to do it right the first time.

I have a 10 foot UV flatbed, a eco-solvent and an aqueous printer and still need more equipment - its a never-ending cycle to keep up with your top 5 or 10 competitors out there. Oh yeah... do you know who they are in your area? Find that out first.

 

[Mosh]

My only advise is to just save up and pay for the printer! It might take a while longer, but if you fail you will not be stuck with a printer that is worth half of what you pay for it (that is the going rate on USED printers) No one startes out to fail, but LIFE happens to us all. Only poor people borrow money and if you don't want to be poor, don't do poor people things. BTW don't even try to prove me wrong, cause you can't....borrowing money is NOT wise.

 

[10sacer]

Mosh is correct. Owing folks sucks. I paid cash for everything I have and no one is banging on my door for monthly payments - which is one less MAJOR burden not to have to deal with. But, obviously, not everyone has that luxury, so tread carefully with your dollars, talk to as many folks and forums as you can, go to the national shows and sit through seminars and get a good business plan in place.

Along the same note... are there other signs forums you guys could recommend to newbies or the experienced looking for more ways to lose time?

 

[garylisko]

Are there any other models in my price range to look into? Im sure its do able, I just need to do some research and find the best match for my needs. I understand the idea of subbing out my print work, but I have my mind set on doing this while I have the chance. I will purchase what I need as I go..

 

[FatCat]

Not a whole lot in the under $10k range new for solvent. 48" SW Prismjet/Mutoh 1204 or possibly a 30" Roland SP-300 or VP-300. You could also go for a 42" latex from BigFish. Otherwise you're easily $14-18,000 for a 54" Roland/Mutoh/Mimaki just to start. Again, you're going to need a RIP and computer minimum on top of the printer purchase. Very likely you will need a contour cutter and while you can get by with a BS for laminating, there is no substitution for the real thing, especially on big stuff.

Used you can find all sorts of deals, but realize you're buying used and taking a big risk if you don't have prior experience in running & maintaining a solvent machine.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

 

[GB2]

If you are interested, I still have a Mimaki JV3 130SP 54" printer for sale. Honestly, I don't think you'll find a used printer in better condition than this one. It is currently in use and comes with the balance of all the materials I have with it, ink, cleaning kit, extra wipers, etc. Feel free to call me to discuss it, here's my ad in the classified section:

http://www.signs101.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=620