No workers anywhere. Hint, we are in the PRC (People's Republic of California)

[GAC05]

$15 an hour?? That was my starting wage in the sign industry over 10 years ago. The workers are there. The wages aren't.

Interesting conversation. I'm good with my decent neighborhood also. My friends lived in the newest neighborhood in town and they build some apartments on the next block next to the nice park. Well, pretty soon you couldn't send your kid to the park alone because the drunk loser people were outside screaming, plenty of sketchy people. Suddenly one day my friends kid came home and told them about a new friend whose dad invited him in the apartment. He was in a wheelchair and drunk and the mom was screaming, place was a disaster. Kid couldn't get home quick enough. That was the last time they were allowed at the park. Drunk wheelchair dad drove his wheelchair to their house a few times wondering why their kid couldn't come over and play anymore with his kid. It didn't end well...for the wheelchair guy...

At least you don't have to contend with meth'd up attack squirrels up there in WI.

 

[binki]

Yeah. The same reason I don't want to live in Los Angeles. I just don't want to be part of a Gotham City. I just want to be part of country life with a city vibe that is far enough away that I don't have to hear it. I can go to it for dinner or a show but that is it. If I can't have that then just the house in the quiet city is good enough. Nothing against appartments or condos, I did both, I just don't want to do that at this point in my life.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You are right. When fist I visited Houston, my friend took me out to a bar that was a house in a residential area; we took a table in the house's (main bar was in the family room) kitchen and he told me the story of how his friends used to live there before it became a bar.

The plus side is that you can have a convenience store in an apartment complex where you can get beer or toilet paper without hopping in car. I know you have you negative opinions about apartment dwellers, but you have to remember white people live in them as well.

That said, I would never want to live in Houston, DC and Dallas are the biggest cities I have lived in and I got tired of the constant growth and sprawl of Dallas, and I am over living in an hour from downtown of any where I go.

I lived in northern Virginia and the traffic was a big motivating factor on us moving back to Florida. Now the constant growth is creating the same issues here. It doesn't benefit anyone except the developers. I'd gladly take a smaller paycheck in exchange for less crime, traffic, noise and high cost of living.

 

[Stacey K]

I really don't have anything against apartment dwellers. I've been in the rental biz basically since I was born. After someone rents for a little bit you can always tell if they are "life-long renters" or just "stepping stone-ers". The minute they buy a nice new vehicle you can be pretty sure they won't be buying a house soon. I've always had better luck with single men renters but those darn girlfriends always come along and steal them from me! I won the last battle and he's still there 3 years later and 2 dumped girlfriends! My downstairs people were "buying a house" 4 years ago but since they have 2 new cars, a new motorcycle and I'm happy to report a new 4-wheeler! They ain't going anywhere any time soon!

 

[binki]

Yeah, I spent a couple of weeks in Orlando and traffic is crazy but aside from that the roads are very nice and well marked. I would move there perm if things get worse here. Mostly for the nice weather, nice roads and no income tax or vehicle tax. On the other hand the property tax and road tax is a negative but I think it is less than what we have here.

There is a balance in life and finding it is key to happiness. I have it here right now but that can change at any time.

 

[victor bogdanov]

$15 an hour?? That was my starting wage in the sign industry over 10 years ago. The workers are there. The wages aren't.

I'm in TX, $15 is good staring wage for someone that has to be taught how to use scissors. I'm amazed by how many people don't know how to use scissors. Fast food places are paying under $10 starting here

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You are right. When fist I visited Houston, my friend took me out to a bar that was a house in a residential area; we took a table in the house's (main bar was in the family room) kitchen and he told me the story of how his friends used to live there before it became a bar.

The plus side is that you can have a convenience store in an apartment complex where you can get beer or toilet paper without hopping in car. I know you have you negative opinions about apartment dwellers, but you have to remember white people live in them as well.

That said, I would never want to live in Houston, DC and Dallas are the biggest cities I have lived in and I got tired of the constant growth and sprawl of Dallas, and I am over living in an hour from downtown of any where I go.

Yea, there are business set up in the middle of residential neighborhoods all over Houston. White people live in the apartments, and not the kind I want to be around. My neighborhood is probably 5% white.. the rest is Indian. All of the East side of Frisco is Indian. Very good people to live around... even better food, but bad taste in decoration... Million dollar houses and they put these tacky bright multi-colored cloth patterns around the front doors. The dress up just to walk around the neighborhood. My wife is loud and always making a scene outside and these Indians are quiet and look at us like you guys look at black people in a nice neighborhood.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yeah, I spent a couple of weeks in Orlando and traffic is crazy but aside from that the roads are very nice and well marked. I would move there perm if things get worse here. Mostly for the nice weather, nice roads and no income tax or vehicle tax. On the other hand the property tax and road tax is a negative but I think it is less than what we have here.

There is a balance in life and finding it is key to happiness. I have it here right now but that can change at any time.

Orlando was the worst place I have ever lived. Crime and traffic there is terrible.

 

[Bobby H]

You can always go to college, get your degree in something like business or finance and then go on to be a diesel mechanic or any other trade. It will give you a big leg up for promotions down the road. Also, doing some of these trades while you are young is great but your ability to efficiently do a lot of the required tasks diminishes as you get older. It is nice to have the ability to move up to a position that is easier on your body. To me, having a degree and knowing a trade is the best route to success.

Anymore, working on passenger vehicles or commercial trucks is turning into as much an IT job as it is a grease-monkey job. My brother has probably spent more time in continuing education style training classes for new Freightliner models over the years than some people have put into their Masters degrees. So many kinds of newer vehicles require specialized tools and specialized computers unique to that brand.

As for the order of doing things, it's probably more do-able for someone to start working in a well paying blue collar job then work on getting a four year degree in business/finance than the other way around. Most skilled trades require plenty of their own training just to get started.

I feel bad for people who went the Art institutes only to graduate with $90k in loans and up making $15-20 and hour - after they put time in and gain real experience.

I attended a much better art school than a 2 year Art Institutes location, but I had only about $10K in student loan debt when I graduated. I didn't take long to pay it off.

It's foolish for anyone to attend a dedicated art school, even a well respected one, with a return on investment mindset. The choice is a selfish move based on wanting the experience of attending a certain college and learning from certain instructors. The piece of paper you get doesn't translate into higher pay, especially not now. The graphic design industry has been largely de-professionalized. The general public thinks anyone can do the work if computers are involved. A big part of the general public has a negative attitude toward jobs that are artsy. They don't think it's real work, just play. Then there are the assumptions that all artist types have a certain political leaning or sexual orientation. Us creative people are not valued like we should be. Creativity and innovation are elements that helped the United States utterly dominate world popular culture over the past 100 years. Big parts of our economy, like our consumer electronics industry and computing industry, have been built on our output of that artsy-fartsy content.

I just don't want to be part of a Gotham City. I just want to be part of country life with a city vibe that is far enough away that I don't have to hear it.

That's one of the reasons why I settled in Lawton, OK after five years of living in New York City. I like the Oklahoma City area; it has enough big city features yet isn't strangled with traffic jams. Plus OKC is just an hour's drive up the turnpike. If I want the giant city experience I can drive 2-3 hours to the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex and its 7 million+ people.

I lived in northern Virginia and the traffic was a big motivating factor on us moving back to Florida. Now the constant growth is creating the same issues here. It doesn't benefit anyone except the developers. I'd gladly take a smaller paycheck in exchange for less crime, traffic, noise and high cost of living.

I went to high school in Northern Virginia (the Quantico Marine Corps base). It staggers me to see how much the area around Quantico, Dale City, etc has changed over the past 30 years. In the 1980's the HOV lanes on I-395/I-95 ended in Springfield. Now they go clear down to Fredericksburg.

 

[Stacey K]

Yea, there are business set up in the middle of residential neighborhoods all over Houston. White people live in the apartments, and not the kind I want to be around. My neighborhood is probably 5% white.. the rest is Indian. All of the East side of Frisco is Indian. Very good people to live around... even better food, but bad taste in decoration... Million dollar houses and they put these tacky bright multi-colored cloth patterns around the front doors. The dress up just to walk around the neighborhood. My wife is loud and always making a scene outside and these Indians are quiet and look at us like you guys look at black people in a nice neighborhood.

We would love to see a live stream from your cameras outside! Sounds like the start of a sitcom!

 

[Stacey K]

My Dad's rule is always buy the worst house in the neighborhood (and fix it up of course). Who wants to live in the best house...you never get to look at your own house out your window.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Orlando was the worst place I have ever lived. Crime and traffic there is terrible.

Spent the first 2 years of my navy career in Orlando, 93-95. I remember we were told not to go to Orange Blossom Trail (OBT), don't remember why anymore tho.

 

[Asuma01]

Hell, I question the value of even going to college anymore. My brother is a diesel truck mechanic, has just a high school education, but makes a lot more per hour than many college educated people. Other skilled trades can pay pretty well. The inflation rate on college tuition is far above average income growth. Many fields of study, like being an elementary school teacher for example, are in job categories with pay so low it's not going to be worth the investment. Unfortunately so many students enter these fields of study without knowing up front they're a bad investment.

And then there is the scam many colleges run on students, requiring them to live on campus and do other things to incur all sorts of additional cost. Adding to that: the naïve irresponsibility of students themselves, not fully understanding how loans, interest and debt works. College loans are much more predatory now than they were 30 years ago when I was a college student. I could borrow only so much back then and had to work other jobs to make up the difference. Today we're seeing kids making the mistake of literally living on student loans for four years and digging themselves a really deep hole in the process. Sure, it's their own fault; they may not deserve any sympathy. But with little if any spare disposable income they're not able to contribute to the economy while stuck paying down all that debt.

Sympathizing with the predatory lenders? Its the kids fault for being tricked and scammed eh? These schools are supposed to be helping our future workforce. Not scamming them.

 

[Boudica]

Sympathizing with the predatory lenders? Its the kids fault for being tricked and scammed eh? These schools are supposed to be helping our future workforce. Not scamming them.

And when they are getting a car loan, but don't understand how it works, who's fault is that?

 

[Bobby H]

Sympathizing with the predatory lenders? Its the kids fault for being tricked and scammed eh? These schools are supposed to be helping our future workforce. Not scamming them.

I'm not sympathizing with predatory lenders. Please notice I used the word "predatory" to describe those outfits. They're doing plenty of things I don't think should be legal. But still, the borrowers really need to know what they're getting themselves into. For instance, I'd rather put a gun to my head than borrow money from one of those pay day loans style outfits. That's legalized loan-sharking there. The only difference is they don't have guys named Vito showing up to break your legs when you miss a payment.

And when they are getting a car loan, but don't understand how it works, who's fault is that?

Sub-prime car loans are another blood sucking, amoral racket.

 

[Asuma01]

And when they are getting a car loan, but don't understand how it works, who's fault is that?

Clearly the dumb kids and not the blood sucking lenders that have lobbied (bribed) our lawmakers into legalizing their schemes.

 

[Boudica]

Clearly the dumb kids and not the blood sucking lenders that have lobbied (bribed) our lawmakers into legalizing their schemes.

it's pretty dumb to sign a legal contract without understanding it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

When we closed on our house, I signed about 50 papers and don't know what any of them were. If I read everything I would still be in the closing office.

 

[Boudica]

When we closed on our house, I signed about 50 papers and don't know what any of them were. If I read everything I would still be in the closing office.

Didn't they explain each paper when you signed it though? When I closed on my house (18 years ago) they explained each form before I signed it. Same when we refinanced. I got the jist. Most importantly... I understood that I had to pay my mortgage payments. Every month until it's paid off.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Sympathizing with the predatory lenders? Its the kids fault for being tricked and scammed eh? These schools are supposed to be helping our future workforce. Not scamming them.

I was smart enough to know better and so we're the majority of my friends that I went to college with. The ones that got in over their heads also knew better but it suited the college life that they wanted to live. While I was out working and taking the bus to campus they were partying and riding around in brand new cars. You can't put on blinders and act as if everyone is naive. Greed and laziness will catch up with you. It takes two to tango as they say