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Not Sure Where To Turn.

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RidicRick

New Member
I have major issue here and need some advice on where to turn, what to do. This will be a long explanation so please bare with me.

I bought a printer from a company (not going to say the name unless I have to) 8-9 years ago. A brand new Roland VP-540. Been using it for all these years and have only had to replace ONE printhead, all the others have worked flawlessly. Im a print shop out of my basement printing graphics for pinballs and classic arcades and have been very successful all these years in doing so.

As of Jan this year my black print head start going wacky, missprinting and so I bought a new printhead off ebay from a respected seller and it saved me money. I did the installation myself as its really easy and everything went well. A week later HALF of my black print head stop working. I called up this Company, Ill call them (company A), and they sent out a tech after 2 weeks of waiting. The tech right away said its just a bad print head and its because I bought a discounted one and not from Roland. OK thats fine, he installed the new one and it wasn't working correctly so he unplugged my damper and ink flew all over. He noticed it wasnt a Roland damper but it was a cheaper one (which has always worked fine). He blamed the ink flying all over on the cheap damper. The ink was all over the printhead board and cables.

At this time after he cleaned the ink off he did a test print and now CYAN didnt work at all, as well as the black. He said Cyan print head died because its old and they worked out a deal and made me pay $400 for a new one as he felt bad that ink might have ruined it possibly (even though he just said it was an old printhead and was bound to die soon). Ok so now I am getting another printhead and I have to pay an extra $400 for the Cyan, the $1200 for the printhead for black and then about $500 in labor.

Heres where it gets bad. As he was testing the printheads he put electrical tape on the cable connecting the printhead to the printhead board so he could test some other cables. He didnt find the problem and then left. Two weeks later he came back and pulled the electrical tape off the ribbon cable and the little tiny gold connections were coming off and bent. Here is where I think the entire printer took a turn for the worse. He said I think I can straighten these and after he said that he then plugged that cable in turned the printer on. Right at this moment we both heard a little POP noise, it was the fuse on the Main PCB, the middle one that controls the black and cyan print head. He pulls the cable out and said the cable is just to far ruined and might have shorted it, now I need to buy all new wiring as the wiring has brown spots that look burned. I did what he said and I literally ordered all new wiring, even the large long cables that go from the printhead board to the main pcb. He said its probably just bad cables from that one cable creating a short and it should fix it. So hundreds of dollars later and now almost 2 months with no business and almost TWO entire sets of ink he went through doing test prints I am still helpless with no working printer. I installed all the new cables and the fuse still blows. They are telling me I need to buy an entire new main PCB which is $1600 plus labor. My printer has been sitting so long im sure all my printheads are ruined even though I do what the tech said and put solution in the cap heads every two days.

Here are the quotes on what the tech has said to me in this entire process.

"I never touched a printer until 9 months ago and they sent me to California for 3 days then when I got back sent me out in the field to work. Pretty much no training and you know as much as me probably."

"When I unplugged your ink tube from the damper it went all over and wasn't my fault because you used a cheap non Roland damper"

So.... Here are some facts about this print tech, yes I looked him up online and facebook, actually my wife did. He has been to prison for drugs, been arrested many times for driving while barred and he has a pretty long past of wrong doings. Now do I want to judge him for this, Not really but I also wasnt going to leave him there alone with my wife while Im at my main job. So I watched every little thing he did. He was a nice guy, we talked about many different things and I don't want to throw him in the bottom of the barrel but at the end of the day ultimately I think he screwed up my printer and I am in a helpless situation. For them to do any more work I have to pay them even more money and he could make the printer even worse yet, somehow. I have spent thousands now, and lost thousands being out of business. He has called me and cancelled an appointment because they had a new customer with a new printer they really need to help with an issue, as Im just a guy in my basement and not as important.

Not only did I buy my printer from them but I took wrap classes with this company and all these years been buying 99% of my media from them. Im lost, Im broke, Im in a situation where I dont know where to turn for help.
 

printhog

New Member
sounds like the guy that tried to fix my machine once, same screw ups. all of those issues are the result of a bad tech and dealer. The excuse that a non roland part caused a system to fail is NOT defensible in court. For that to be a defense, they would be into whats called "tied goods" under the Sherman-Clayton Anti Trust act. Ive had a successful case against a major company for that. Courts recognize after market parts as viable, with exceptions for custom electronic items like main boards running firmware. Mere cables and tubes cant be excused by that. Heads could be a wobbler.. to defend that they'd need to show that there is some special consideration as to roland heads vs epson generic. Since roland buys the heads from epson, there isnt likely any major difference. Your installing them would be in question, but if you had the servoice manual and followed it and basic static safety rules, theres no defense there either. the tech uses the same manual, or should have.. His improper practices caused further damage, and a 3 day training class isnt enough to teach troubleshooting at a level that can decide original mfr vs open market issues.

Your only solution is to replace the fuse, find the cause of the failures, likely a new main cable, new head cables, maybe get a new head (once the leads short the heads can often go bad) and sue the firm that sent him. I'd try to find another dealer and tech, maybe have one from out of state fly in. Tell them UP FRONT that their work will be reviewed and scrutinized in court in the case against their competitor. They'll need to be familiar with after market parts and NOT against the use of client supplied parts. If you were to find that Roland has created a service network that has been specifically tied to Roland parts on out of warranty printers, and not allowed to use client supplied parts, then you have a cause for action in federal court for Tied Goods and a federal anti trust case.. as the federal judge said in my case during pre trail conference - "I cant say the plaintiff doesnt have a case" - 24 hours later the printer manufacturer was settling the case. my bet is you'll find that tie exists.

Yes that costs, but youre out of business right now so its a fight for survival.

Id ask for all the costs to restore the machine, and all labor to do so, as well as lost income opportunities based on the calendar periods youre down calculated from your last two years of sales for that period . since that is likely over your small claims limit, hire an attorney. Often companies will settle once you get counsel on board, because in this case, youve got an easy point of blame and a very questionable service tech. If you find the overall service model has tied the goods, you should pursue the federal side and open the manufacturer up like a fish... i can attest that the little guy can win in these things.. i did.
 

SYYED SHAKEER

New Member
I have major issue here and need some advice on where to turn, what to do. This will be a long explanation so please bare with me.

I bought a printer from a company (not going to say the name unless I have to) 8-9 years ago. A brand new Roland VP-540. Been using it for all these years and have only had to replace ONE printhead, all the others have worked flawlessly. Im a print shop out of my basement printing graphics for pinballs and classic arcades and have been very successful all these years in doing so.

As of Jan this year my black print head start going wacky, missprinting and so I bought a new printhead off ebay from a respected seller and it saved me money. I did the installation myself as its really easy and everything went well. A week later HALF of my black print head stop working. I called up this Company, Ill call them (company A), and they sent out a tech after 2 weeks of waiting. The tech right away said its just a bad print head and its because I bought a discounted one and not from Roland. OK thats fine, he installed the new one and it wasn't working correctly so he unplugged my damper and ink flew all over. He noticed it wasnt a Roland damper but it was a cheaper one (which has always worked fine). He blamed the ink flying all over on the cheap damper. The ink was all over the printhead board and cables.

At this time after he cleaned the ink off he did a test print and now CYAN didnt work at all, as well as the black. He said Cyan print head died because its old and they worked out a deal and made me pay $400 for a new one as he felt bad that ink might have ruined it possibly (even though he just said it was an old printhead and was bound to die soon). Ok so now I am getting another printhead and I have to pay an extra $400 for the Cyan, the $1200 for the printhead for black and then about $500 in labor.

Heres where it gets bad. As he was testing the printheads he put electrical tape on the cable connecting the printhead to the printhead board so he could test some other cables. He didnt find the problem and then left. Two weeks later he came back and pulled the electrical tape off the ribbon cable and the little tiny gold connections were coming off and bent. Here is where I think the entire printer took a turn for the worse. He said I think I can straighten these and after he said that he then plugged that cable in turned the printer on. Right at this moment we both heard a little POP noise, it was the fuse on the Main PCB, the middle one that controls the black and cyan print head. He pulls the cable out and said the cable is just to far ruined and might have shorted it, now I need to buy all new wiring as the wiring has brown spots that look burned. I did what he said and I literally ordered all new wiring, even the large long cables that go from the printhead board to the main pcb. He said its probably just bad cables from that one cable creating a short and it should fix it. So hundreds of dollars later and now almost 2 months with no business and almost TWO entire sets of ink he went through doing test prints I am still helpless with no working printer. I installed all the new cables and the fuse still blows. They are telling me I need to buy an entire new main PCB which is $1600 plus labor. My printer has been sitting so long im sure all my printheads are ruined even though I do what the tech said and put solution in the cap heads every two days.

Here are the quotes on what the tech has said to me in this entire process.

"I never touched a printer until 9 months ago and they sent me to California for 3 days then when I got back sent me out in the field to work. Pretty much no training and you know as much as me probably."

"When I unplugged your ink tube from the damper it went all over and wasn't my fault because you used a cheap non Roland damper"

So.... Here are some facts about this print tech, yes I looked him up online and facebook, actually my wife did. He has been to prison for drugs, been arrested many times for driving while barred and he has a pretty long past of wrong doings. Now do I want to judge him for this, Not really but I also wasnt going to leave him there alone with my wife while Im at my main job. So I watched every little thing he did. He was a nice guy, we talked about many different things and I don't want to throw him in the bottom of the barrel but at the end of the day ultimately I think he screwed up my printer and I am in a helpless situation. For them to do any more work I have to pay them even more money and he could make the printer even worse yet, somehow. I have spent thousands now, and lost thousands being out of business. He has called me and cancelled an appointment because they had a new customer with a new printer they really need to help with an issue, as Im just a guy in my basement and not as important.

Not only did I buy my printer from them but I took wrap classes with this company and all these years been buying 99% of my media from them. Im lost, Im broke, Im in a situation where I dont know where to turn for help.

This is a very unfortunate situation and do not wish this on anyone . I hate when you pay someone for doing trial and error . Trial and error should be done by the owner at his own risk not by a technician who charger per hour . I also hate when they ask for a new cartridge of ink . Were you ever able to rectify this problem ?
Thanks
 

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
I have worked in the field for over 10 years and can tell you that getting 3 days of training at the manufacturer is pretty much par for the course for Roland, Mimaki and Mutoh. My customers ask all the time, "What kind of training do they give you?" and when I say a few days they are always shocked. It's sort of a paradox. To be a good tech you need experience but to get experience you need to work on machines in the field. Somebody is going to have to be the guinea pig. That being said, damage caused by a tech should always be covered by the dealer. I was once that guy with 3 days training working on a machine and plugged a cable in wrong. It blew up the slider board. We covered the cost of the repair. My boss also came on all service calls with me for the first 6 months to make sure I wasn't completely messing people's printers up. Sending a guy out on his own like that is asking for trouble. I would not pay this bill if you haven't already.
 

MachServTech

New Member
Wow. I have seen this kind of thing in the field. You need to wash your hands of this company and move on. First, address your business backlog. find assistance in non-competitive companies, some may be on this forum. Get your revenue stream safe (you may take a margin hit on outsourcing.) The other thing you can do is lease a lower-end system package that includes installation and next business day support. Epson or Latex would work well for this application (Latex does tend to work better in-home shop environments where printing is inconsistent and printheads need to be replaced frequently)

Once you have done this you MAY want to get compensation. Ask first. Keep all correspondence in writing and reiterate any verbal conversations in follow up emails. KEEP EVERYTHING (parts, documents, etc.)
If no response then hire an attorney.
This is a huge PITA and may not be with it overall.
 

premiercolour

Merchant Member
Horrible. We paid 10 Xaar printheads to a reputable company. They were wrong printheads so I asked for replacement. According to them, in order for them to ship again. I have to pay again. I paid again; received the right printheads. I sent the wrong printheads back. No refund after a week. It was over $10k so I was a bit irritated. After I post on signs101, somehow, some time, the refund was in our bank the next business day. Keep in mind, they have to wire day before for us to receive the next day for international wire. I say after I post within hours, they initiated the bank wire. lol

I said the dealer has to cover it.
 

ApexVinyl

Premium Subscriber
I say after I post within hours, they initiated the bank wire. lol

I said the dealer has to cover it.


At least you were allowed to call out the company that tried to slight you. I was not so fortunate on here. 10k is some serious money.

But anyway, I would like to know what happened as well. It says the fellow joined in 2009 but only posted in 2017 then disappeared again. Maybe he decided to hang it up. That would be disappointing but when you run from home something like this could cause a person to throw in the towel.
 

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Locking thread due to pointless replies. Original poster hasn't been on the forums for nearly 3 years.
They are welcome to open a new thread if they return.
 
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