NOW HIRING ISSUE

[CanuckSigns]

People are making too much right now. Hate to say it but more people than not, only work hard enough to maintain their current lifestyle. When they start making more than they need, it becomes much harder to get them to work. If you have 2 people in a house that are used to living on $15/hr incomes at 35 hours a week then 1 gets a new job making $24/hr and 60 hours a week, whats the point in the other one working anymore? I work hard and can see this in myself just as much as anyone else.

Are you suggesting that people should only make enough to cover their base expenses? What about saving for retirement, home ownership etc?

I'm not sure what it's like where you are, but here wages haven't kept up with inflation for at least the last 10 years. If you don't currently own a house, your chances of getting into the housing market without your parents financial help is pretty much zero, by the time you save up a down-payment the price of the houses you were looking at have gone up $150,000.

I'm saying this as a business owner, not an employee, something needs to change or we will have a massive problem of no one being able to afford to live in 10 years, the birth rates are already dropping because young people can't afford a house to raise a kid in, and they don't want to raise a kid in a 450 sq/ft condo

 

[Vinyl slayer]

I don't think he was talking about planners, and home buyers. He was talking about Stacy's tennant.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Are you suggesting that people should only make enough to cover their base expenses? What about saving for retirement, home ownership etc?

I'm not sure what it's like where you are, but here wages haven't kept up with inflation for at least the last 10 years. If you don't currently own a house, your chances of getting into the housing market without your parents financial help is pretty much zero, by the time you save up a down-payment the price of the houses you were looking at have gone up $150,000.

I'm saying this as a business owner, not an employee, something needs to change or we will have a massive problem of no one being able to afford to live in 10 years, the birth rates are already dropping because young people can't afford a house to raise a kid in, and they don't want to raise a kid in a 450 sq/ft condo

I never suggested or eluded to anything about what people should do.
Do you work 7 days 80 hours a week? Why not? The business is out there, why don't you work more to earn more? Or do you make enough in 40 hours 5 days a week to be content with where you're at? Why should anyone else be different? People are mad that they can't find workers but maybe some people don't need the money? Not everyone wants to buy a house or have more things so they do what's required to get by and call it a day. I admire that to a certain extent. The whole growth thing is a slippery slope and everyone at some point plateaus. It's none of my business or anyone else's to tell someone else where that point is just because they value things differently.
Now, I'm not talking about the societal leaches because even if they decided they want to work, nobody would hire them anyways. I'm talking the hireable people that have kicked back for whatever reason. I think that this is why. My wife recently quit her 6 figure job to come work for me weeding and bookkeeping for peanuts. Is she in this lazy group since she left a hole in the skilled employee market to basically do nothing? Sometimes life is more important as long as you can stay afloat.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Housing won't stay like this forever... it will stabilize. This isn't 2009, it's completely different. Wages will go up and so will inflation. There is nothing we can do about any of this so why worry about it?

 

[ikarasu]

Housing won't stay like this forever... it will stabilize. This isn't 2009, it's completely different. Wages will go up and so will inflation. There is nothing we can do about any of this so why worry about it?

People have been telling me that for the past 20 years. I just paid 750,00 for a townhouse 2 years ago. The one next to me just sold for 850,000. To buy a house.... Even a crack house fixer upper is a million plus.

And I'm about 40 minutes away from Vancouver in a suburb. Vancouver is crazier.

I bought a condo 8 years ago for 220k. Sold it for 450k 2 years ago and upgraded to a townhome. If I didn't have that condo... I wouldn't be able to get into the housing market. People who are waiting are getting priced out of buying. 2 years ago I thought the "bubble" was going to pop. Since then prices have gone up 25-30% and are still rising.


That's why it's hard to find workers here. You need to be making 60-80k a year just to get by. Rent is $12-1500 a month. If we paid every worker that.... Our sign price would quadruple.

Heck... I'm lucky. I make in the low 70k range... That's considered very high for what I do in our area. And I've learned the only way to "make" it is by being your own boss. I make more at my side gig that takes me 2 hours a night than I do at my job. A lot of people are figuring that out as well..

You can sell vinyl decals on Etsy with a Cricut and make more than the $15-20 an hour sign shops are offering. I have a neighbor who does it... She raked in over 40k in one month selling facemasks with her cricut the First month of covid.

I'm not saying sign shops and other shops don't pay enough. Just that in this day and age with online sales and so many other opportunities... People are looking at non tradition ways to make as much as they would working a 9-5 job. Move out to the boonies where you can buy a house for under 100k, live like a king and sell stuff online working a few hours a day. There's like 20 small time sign bloggers on YouTube who pull in 50-100k a year doing odd jobs they get online.. It's an interesting time...

And while I want to believe something will change and the bubble will pop, if I wait around for it to.. I'll be in a much worst place than I am now. Yes... Paying $1800 a month mortgage on a townhouse is crazy. But I'd rather do that and get some equity and be able to sell it as the price keeps inflating, than pay $1600 to rent a place of similar size and throw the money away on rent.

 

[MJ-507]

Glad I'm not looking right now. Making more signs than ever before for hiring people for customers that is.

I think the trade schools and local schools are a good idea. It just seems nobody wants to work anymore. Nothing but spoiled people since this whole thing hit. My neighbor's kid flips hamburgers and is always calling off sick and they're too scared to fire him. He makes close to $24 an hour. I couldn't believe it. Sometimes more because the others don't want to work, so they pass their help around and pay them well to do it. A few months ago he was making almost 50 bucks an hour 2 days a week.

$24 to flip burgers??? Where in the country do you call home?? I make less than that (not by much but still) after 25 years as a designer - and I know that my employer is in the top three for what companies pay for designers in my area. I REALLY like what I do and can't think of much else I'd like to do for a profession, but money talks when you have 2 kids & 4 bonus kids to support.

 

[illuminate Creative]

Here's my take on this from the "employee" side...
I'm in the South East too (like the above post) and I've been in the graphics/printing/sign/large format business since '93. First up in Chicago, then down in NC. Moving down South gave me a 50% pay cut to do the same thing I did in IL so that was tough. Up there I was at almost $30 per hour. I started in NC in 2008 making $14. At that shop, they didn't do any large format/sign work so in '09 I talked them into a used Roland print/cut machine. Since then, 2 more printers later, a bucket truck, 10,000 sq ft. space, full fabrication capabilities, laser, CNC, etc. and I get let go due to COVID shutting things down.
I interviewed at every shop in town with only 1 actual job offer, making way less than what I had been previously paid. I have TONS of experience, pride myself on quality work and the money and opportunities just aren't there. So, I started my own thing, even with an Etsy page (which I'm finding is WAY overrated as anyone with a vinyl cutter is giving away their products just to get sales)
In the last 6 months things have started to pick up a little, but it'll be a long road before I will get to where I used to be.
Maybe it's just the market in this town?
To find a place who would want an experienced craftsman that could be paid appropriately based on experience and work ethic would be a huge gift!

 

[Ray Miller]

$24 to flip burgers??? Where in the country do you call home?? I make less than that (not by much but still) after 25 years as a designer - and I know that my employer is in the top three for what companies pay for designers in my area. I REALLY like what I do and can't think of much else I'd like to do for a profession, but money talks when you have 2 kids & 4 bonus kids to support.

Southeast Pennsylvania. The really sad part is he had just turned 16 when that took place last year. He'll be 17 this summer and he's already bought a nice car and has all the latest in fashions and barely goes to school. He's being spoiled but why not? Between the government and just being a teenager, he's got it made. Today that is. Wait till he grows up a little.

 

[Vinyl slayer]

Southeast Pennsylvania. The really sad part is he had just turned 16 when that took place last year. He'll be 17 this summer and he's already bought a nice car and has all the latest in fashions and barely goes to school. He's being spoiled but why not? Between the government and just being a teenager, he's got it made. Today that is. Wait till he grows up a little.

He probably has car payments. Reality Will hit him when he can't make them.

 

[Eric H]

Care to share where in SE PA you can get $24 to flip burgers, I might need to changes careers.

 

[SignEST]

The only people complaining about not being able to find workers are the ones cheaping out on paying them. Talent costs money. This whole people not wanting to work crap jobs for no pay is not due to laziness. It's because people are not as desperate. Less desperation is good, I know it's hard to hear for a lot of people with their heads up their asses.
This is just my 2 cents from various industries and odd positions held in many companies.

 

[Signs101Admin]

People on unemployment make just as much working so under this BS administration people are being paid to stay home.

 

[ikarasu]

You cant just blame Biden for it though. Canada is doing the same thing, as are other countries whi got hit by covid a lot. The alternative ef mass homelessness would not only cost more, but would destroy the economy.

We have about a dozen people who come work for us whenever were busy on big projects... They've been doing it for 10+ years. Mainly retired people seeking extra income, or people who work part time. The past year not one of them would come into work because they were on cerb ($1000 a week or something like that) and would rather sit at home getting free money than work.

Needless to say we won't be in inviting them back when their government funding ends and they'll be replaced with others who want to work.

But... It's an issue everywhere. I don't blame our government for it, I think a few bad apples (I know, it's more like a lot) shouldnt ruin the help needed for others who legitimately need it. It's not a political issue, and sadly for as long as we've had a civilization, there's been people taking advantage of programs and stuff meant to help those in need... It's just part of the territory.

And to be honest... When hiring I don't want someone who'd rather sit on their ass and make half as much while doing nothing. I want someone who wants to be at work and be a productive.member of society.

We've used this situation to fill our ranks. We've hired 3 people even though we didn't need them currently, just spots we planned to fill in the future. We knew any candidates we get now are the motivated ones... So far all 3 have been the best hires we've done in the past 5 years.

You guys have to turn Lemons into lemonade!

 

[White Haus]

You cant just blame Biden for it though. Canada is doing the same thing, as are other countries whi got hit by covid a lot. The alternative ef mass homelessness would not only cost more, but would destroy the economy.

We have about a dozen people who come work for us whenever were busy on big projects... They've been doing it for 10+ years. Mainly retired people seeking extra income, or people who work part time. The past year not one of them would come into work because they were on cerb ($1000 a week or something like that) and would rather sit at home getting free money than work.

Needless to say we won't be in inviting them back when their government funding ends and they'll be replaced with others who want to work.

But... It's an issue everywhere. I don't blame our government for it, I think a few bad apples (I know, it's more like a lot) shouldnt ruin the help needed for others who legitimately need it. It's not a political issue, and sadly for as long as we've had a civilization, there's been people taking advantage of programs and stuff meant to help those in need... It's just part of the territory.

And to be honest... When hiring I don't want someone who'd rather sit on their *** and make half as much while doing nothing. I want someone who wants to be at work and be a productive.member of society.

We've used this situation to fill our ranks. We've hired 3 people even though we didn't need them currently, just spots we planned to fill in the future. We knew any candidates we get now are the motivated ones... So far all 3 have been the best hires we've done in the past 5 years.

You guys have to turn Lemons into lemonade!

Glad to hear you found a few good new team members! Just out of curiosity, what are they expected to do until their spots are ready for them? How do you guys handle the downtime until they fill their new positions?

Reason I ask, we need to hire someone asap, but it's taking me longer than it should to wrap my head around what exactly we need this person to do. I do want to have a clear position and expectations that I can communicate with them, but so far all I've come up with is "we just need SOMEONE to come help us" lol. Our last couple of employees were thrown into the fire way too quick and I unfortunately trained them to be jack of all trades, which isn't productive or helpful in the end. But we also need help with just about every aspect of the business. I guess I've got some figuring to do.

Hope that makes sense, only on my second coffee.

And I'm glad you were able to get into a townhouse out there, that market is especially crazy. My aunt had an amazing townhouse in False Creek (rooftop patio and all) until they sold it and moved out near Sechelt a few years back. They did quite well on the sale, and she doesn't miss the big city and I don't blame her! Beautiful part of the country either way, but Vancouver is way too busy for me. I get annoyed with "rush hour" in Winnipeg which is usually 20 mins max haha.

 

[ikarasu]

Our production staff has been a bit short for the past year due to people leaving and us becoming busier. We've been taking on bigger and bigger projects that require a ton of people to do... I think we had about 7 temps for 4 months straight last year, a 2 month break inbetween then another 4 months straight. Ontop of us constantly having to outsource installs for wraps / 3D lettering because our installers were too busy doing other stuff. We were doing enough outsourcing to fill 1.5 peoples salaries alone.

So by hiring people we're hoping to not have to bring in temps, or contract installs anymore. The temp parts worked great... we still hire out quite a bit though due to our installers having different strengths... but we're hoping after a bit more training that goes away!

We've been busier this past year than ever before... funny enough we haven't done much covid stuff. A lot of governments have a surplus budget since theyre not spending it elsewhere...so our workflow has been crazy. The past 2 months have been record low months for us though... so there is a lot of standing around. We've been re-organizing the shop, doing in house training, we've crosstrained a lot... We lost our secondary CNC operator / Wide format operator... now we have 3 people that can run each, so we no longer have downtime due to one guy being sick! There's lots of stuff you can get done when you're not too busy. Of course as an owner knowing you're paying all this money while not bringing any cashflow in is scary... But things will pick up again, and we'll be in a much stronger position than we were in a year ago...so it has its upsides! Plus like I said... out of the dozen or so different temps we brought in... not one would come in because they were on cerb getting paid for free. Nothing like giving people jobs for years and then being told they'd rather free money than to come help when you're in a very busy time and need help... hell, I would have hired 3 people just out of spite just so I never had to bring these guys in again


Ontop of that... we have about 8 employees with 2+ months of vacation saved up since they cant leave for Vacations. So we've been asking / " forcing" them to take 2 weeks off here and there to get it down to 2 weeks max... So even though we have 3 extra people, we're usually down at least 1, more like 2 everyday to run out peoples vacation time.


Hiring when you dont necessarily need it right away does have its hardships! But if you can stay afloat and your business is doing well... its better to hire before hand so you can provide the proper training rather than throwing people into the fire as you said. I'm sure theres a fine balance though...and I bet if the owner of our company was asked, he'd likely wished he waited on one or two of the new hires since the past 2 months have been dead...


Wall of text! I'm stuck at home today so I'm bored And yes, I'm glad to have got the townhome... but I hate it. I want a big yard for my kid, and a place I know I'll live in forever... I dont like doing upgrades here because it feels like a stepping stone. But a house the size of my townhouse (2200 sqft) is in the 1-1.2 Million range in my neighborhood... In a few more years working this job as well as my side job selling online I can likely afford it...then another 30 until its paid off, I can retire when I'm 70-75!

 

[Pewter0000]

Yeeeeah we're in Halifax, it's the same thing. We don't own a home and we've got no chance at getting enough of a downpayment to get one - it's like the prices are rising as fast as we save. And it's not like we don't save. My spouse is working full time salaried, and I'm working 40 hours a week in signage and 15 hours/week in freelance when I get home in the evenings. We're living comfortably, for sure, but not home-ownership comfortably. Yeah a mortgage would be cheaper, of course - but gotta get that downpayment and bid 75k-100k over asking. It's nuts here.

Re: hiring good help, I'm +1 for the tradesfolk. But also, believe it or not, folks working in the physical arts (sculpture, painting) have a lot of building, woodworking experience, usually a few digital skills, good problem solving, and - most importantly - good worth ethic. They're often willing to put the hours in, because they're used to doing it in studio spaces. They also seem to be particularly motivated not to be starving artists I'd search around art spaces or art campuses.