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Océ 1200 vs hp fb550

bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
So I'm doing my homework for my first flatbed printer. I have to say I've never operate or own one before (only roll-to-roll machine). I've tried to read everything on the subject to learn more. So for parts and service, the best manufacturer in my area would be OCE and HP. So it narrow down my possibility.

The main use of the printer will be to print on acrylic up to 3/8 full sheet and clear vinyl. So the white ink is very important (quality and opacity). The products will mostly be installed in interior office, so quality print is a plus value than speed. I will also do lots of coroplast and ink adhesion/fading for outdoor use is one of my concern.

I've been to the océ office last week and I was very impressed with the printer. I will se a demo of the HP in about two weeks.

Price point is not the same for both model, but I'm wondering if the extra $$$ is justified for the océ. What other point should I look for?
 
Pauly

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Oce over the HP.

The OCE is a true flat bed while the HP is a hybrid.

Can't say to much more as i never used the HP, but my Oce is outstanding. I used mine for fine art photography prints on glass. So doing that on acrylic isn't a problem.
 
bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
Pauly said:
Oce over the HP.

The OCE is a true flat bed while the HP is a hybrid.

Can't say to much more as i never used the HP, but my Oce is outstanding. I used mine for fine art photography prints on glass. So doing that on acrylic isn't a problem.
Click to expand...

I understand the point between true flatbed vs hybrid. But in my case, I will do lot of print on roll media. I know océ have the roll-to-roll option. Also, with an hybrid, I could print on 4x10 and 5X10 sheets.
 
2B

2B

Active Member
so you no longer have a roll to roll machine? and this new machine will do everything?

as already said the OCE is the better option IMO
 
bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
2B said:
so you no longer have a roll to roll machine? and this new machine will do everything?

as already said the OCE is the better option IMO
Click to expand...

The roll-to-roll option is for the white ink that I do not have on my ''regular'' machine.

The oce is almost two times the price of a FB here (Canada). I'm sure it's a better machine, but is it 2X better?
 
ChrisN

ChrisN

New Member
Oce will have better print quality than the HP, especially if you are running the HP with white ink all the time.

The HP print heads are older, and only have one 15pl drop size. They do have LC & LM inks by default, which makes up for the single droplet size. However, to run white, you have to switch out the LC & LM ink for white, which will end up giving you grainy light colors. Basically, you can choose between higher quality prints, or white ink.

The Oce, on the other hand, has a range of droplet sizes from 6pl - 42pl, which will give you smoother light colors while using less ink. Plus, you don't have to switch out ink when you want to print white.

When we were looking for flatbeds, we compared the HP FB 750 & Oce Arizona 460, as well as others. We ended up going with another manufacturer than either of those two, but between the HP and Oce, I would have picked with the Oce if high print quality was my main need.
 
Correct Color

Correct Color

New Member
I'm sure it's a better machine, but is it 2X better?
Click to expand...

It really just depends on what you want the printer to do.

The HP is a pretty rugged old workhorse, but it's pretty dated technology. It's got pretty big dots, is not a multi-dot printer, and cure bands and lawn-mower bands to one degree or a other depending on the speed you try and get out of it.

For upper-end quality, you won't be happy with it. For printing yard signs and banners and the like, you might wind up thinking it's a good buy.
 
bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
It may change everything, but I just found I have a swissqprint and cetcolor distributor/tech near me. So those ones would be in my comparaison chart also.
 
S

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
If you thought the Océ was expensive, the SwissQ is going to blow your mind.
I pick the Océ out of all the options available also.
 
R

Robert Gruner

New Member
Ben,

SwissQ is top of the line in both price and performance.

Oce and CET price competitive. Demo your particular application on both and go from there. Close and reliable service should be a major consideration.

HP FB550 is a 64" wide Hybrid. Again, demo your particular application and go from there. The cost for their roll to roll take-up option is very close to what you would pay for a HP 64" wide latex printer and much more versatile.

Enjoy the day and good printing!
 
bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
OK, so I've talked with the SwisQ dealer this morning and the machine is definitely out of my price range. The HP FB550 is no longer a contender because I did not like the print quality and ink adhesion.

I still have to do my homework but here is my new list:
  1. OCÉ 1200 series (tested and went to a demo)
  2. Vanguard VK300D (waiting for samples)
  3. EFI 1625 LED (waiting for samples and demo)

From what I've read on this forum, the Vanguard seems to be a good choice. Everything is impressive on paper, but there is no roll-to-roll option. I would have to cut my vinyl in 10ft strip to print on it. From my experience right now, I've never have to print a panel over 10ft.

The EFI is more in my price range but did not found lot informations on the web. The build is similar to the FB550 with a better technology and more reliable from what I've found.

So like you see, I still need some help from your experiences.
 
N

nate

New Member
bigben said:
OK, so I've talked with the SwisQ dealer this morning and the machine is definitely out of my price range. The HP FB550 is no longer a contender because I did not like the print quality and ink adhesion.

I still have to do my homework but here is my new list:
  1. OCÉ 1200 series (tested and went to a demo)
  2. Vanguard VK300D (waiting for samples)
  3. EFI 1625 LED (waiting for samples and demo)

From what I've read on this forum, the Vanguard seems to be a good choice. Everything is impressive on paper, but there is no roll-to-roll option. I would have to cut my vinyl in 10ft strip to print on it. From my experience right now, I've never have to print a panel over 10ft.

The EFI is more in my price range but did not found lot informations on the web. The build is similar to the FB550 with a better technology and more reliable from what I've found.

So like you see, I still need some help from your experiences.
Click to expand...

VK300D by Vanguard is a great machine. I'd take a close look at it.
 
R

Robert Gruner

New Member
Ben,

Your new list is Oce, CET, and Vanguard.

Oce been around for a while and is pretty well known.

CET been selling in US for several years and reports vary...you can find quite a few threads at this site

Vanguard is offspring of CET management, and I suspect is a pretty good printer.

Demos for your particular application is correct approach.

I also think you might consider the Mimaki JFX200 (http://www.mimakiusa.com/products/uv/jfx200-2513/) This 4'x8' flatbed sells for around $80K and prints very nicely to acrylics.

Good hunting

Bob
 
R

Robert Gruner

New Member
Ben,

Mimaki has done a very nice job of tweaking their UV flatbed technology. The JFX200 units (Ricoh Gen4 heads I believe) perform quite well. The JFX200-2531 is Mimaki's new 10' model. You should check with them for a demo in Chicago or Boston I believe.

How wide? and what volume? of "clear flexible vinyl" do you expect to print?

You might want to consider printing your flexible clear vinyl (64" or less) on the new Epson SureColor S80600 eco-solvent ink printer instead of on a flatbed?
 
Bly

Bly

New Member
The Mimaki slows to half speed on all jobs if you have white ink fitted, unlike the Oce.
 
T_K

T_K

New Member
One thing I love about S101: when I'm researching equipment, there's bound to be discussions here as well. We're also beginning to look at a flatbed - something I know next to nothing about right now. So the gathered wisdom and experience is great.

I've got a meeting with Vanguard tomorrow, and with an Oce dealer on Thursday. I'll try to post my thoughts on here afterward.
 
D

DougWestwood

New Member
Hi All,

Having run several OCE Arizona 250s, and their sister machine the FUJI Acuity flatbeds, I can say that the printheads are the biggest problem. At $5,000 each, they should be iron-clad tanks which last forever. They are not.

I have seen several heads clog up with ink that has turned into jelly. No explanation from the tech as to WHY the ink has solidified, just an expensive replacement. Have also seen a couple of heads seize up and stop working. Immediately. Right after doing a clean print. No tech-planation there, either.

That said, I have also seen a 3.5" print head with a solid inch of nozzles not firing, do a clean print. Inexplicable.

There was a problem with the print heads leaking around the edges inside the carriage. The leak would seep out the sides, and eat through the side of the print head, killing a few nozzles at a time, eventually killing the head totally. They have newer heads which have a better seal on them, so be sure your machine has the latest heads. If your dealer is honest, he will show you the upgrade when you mention this. Also, ask about the ink lines to the print heads. They have an inner layer which sometimes separates from the outer layer. Saw the after-effects of this - a hose exploded in the carriage, spraying black ink all over a $5,000 mother board.

The OCE/FUJI inks have had adhesion problems in the past. I was using one about a year ago, and they switched inks to a more latex-based formula. I tested it by printing a piece of coroplast, putting a small piece in the company freezer for a few days. Then I took it out and folded it twice. The ink stayed perfectly, no cracks, no flakes. I think they were called "K1" inks, but they might have something better now.

The bulbs are expensive and wear out often enough to be considered a consumable. There is a third party supplier which can save you money, if your machine is out of warranty.

Biggest thing is keeping it clean. Running it as much as possible, especially with white ink, will keep the nozzles pretty clear. Any dust anywhere will fall onto your prints. Clean the lamp screens often. Ask about what liquid to use to clean the heads. OCE has gone back and forth between recommending ISO alcohol and the ink flush solvent. ISO worked best for me, but ....

The roll option on the OCE/FUJI works great. Like having two printers in one, not a hybrid which does both jobs, but problematic.

Good luck!
- Doug
Vancouver
 
Bly

Bly

New Member
I just bought a used Oce 360 GT from Oce, it was only installed last week.
I'd have to say they do charge a premium but so far it has been worth it.
Service and training has been phenomenal.
The machine itself prints fabulous quality, better than I expected from a flatbed for sure. With the roll feed option I can šee many uses for this, especially with the white ink.
I'm going to show a client some samples of white ink print for their office fitout this morning. Could be quite a lucrative job.
The maintenance seems intense but am sure it will become second nature.
Of course lamps and heads don't last forever so factor them into your pricing.
 
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