Océ 1200 vs hp fb550

[Jordan]

Just a thought: If your primary purpose for buying the flatbed is to print to clear media (rolled and rigid), why not save the money and get a roll-to-roll that prints white like the new Epson S80600? Flatbeds can be a game changer for volume in your business, but they are quite maintenance heavy machines, and don't like flaws in your rigid material (stuff that vinyl can cover up if needed).

 

[bigben]

Just a thought: If your primary purpose for buying the flatbed is to print to clear media (rolled and rigid), why not save the money and get a roll-to-roll that prints white like the new Epson S80600? Flatbeds can be a game changer for volume in your business, but they are quite maintenance heavy machines, and don't like flaws in your rigid material (stuff that vinyl can cover up if needed).

It was in my option. 35% will be clear vinyl and the rest will be rigid substrate. So to be competitive, the uv flatbed was making more sense.

 

[Bly]

We love our HP 360s for roll media but a flatbed with a roll feed just gives more options - like white on clear vinyl & 2 metre wide banners.

 

[FangMan]

For your application the Oce is the better choice. It's much easier to print pre-cut custom shape and rigid media on true flatbed vs. belt driven printers. Plus the print head technology on the HP is 3 generations old (15 picaliter drop). If you would consider another option, I'd like to put you in touch with a Company in Oregon doing similar work as you describe?

Best Regards
Marty Fangman
Vanguard Digital Printing Systems

 

[Pauly]

Hi All,

Having run several OCE Arizona 250s, and their sister machine the FUJI Acuity flatbeds, I can say that the printheads are the biggest problem. At $5,000 each, they should be iron-clad tanks which last forever. They are not.

I have seen several heads clog up with ink that has turned into jelly. No explanation from the tech as to WHY the ink has solidified, just an expensive replacement. Have also seen a couple of heads seize up and stop working. Immediately. Right after doing a clean print. No tech-planation there, either.

That said, I have also seen a 3.5" print head with a solid inch of nozzles not firing, do a clean print. Inexplicable.

There was a problem with the print heads leaking around the edges inside the carriage. The leak would seep out the sides, and eat through the side of the print head, killing a few nozzles at a time, eventually killing the head totally. They have newer heads which have a better seal on them, so be sure your machine has the latest heads. If your dealer is honest, he will show you the upgrade when you mention this. Also, ask about the ink lines to the print heads. They have an inner layer which sometimes separates from the outer layer. Saw the after-effects of this - a hose exploded in the carriage, spraying black ink all over a $5,000 mother board.

The OCE/FUJI inks have had adhesion problems in the past. I was using one about a year ago, and they switched inks to a more latex-based formula. I tested it by printing a piece of coroplast, putting a small piece in the company freezer for a few days. Then I took it out and folded it twice. The ink stayed perfectly, no cracks, no flakes. I think they were called "K1" inks, but they might have something better now.

The bulbs are expensive and wear out often enough to be considered a consumable. There is a third party supplier which can save you money, if your machine is out of warranty.

Biggest thing is keeping it clean. Running it as much as possible, especially with white ink, will keep the nozzles pretty clear. Any dust anywhere will fall onto your prints. Clean the lamp screens often. Ask about what liquid to use to clean the heads. OCE has gone back and forth between recommending ISO alcohol and the ink flush solvent. ISO worked best for me, but ....

The roll option on the OCE/FUJI works great. Like having two printers in one, not a hybrid which does both jobs, but problematic.

Good luck!
- Doug
Vancouver

Doug, The 200 series & 300 series are much older now and i wouldn't use them to compare with with the much newer Oce flatbeds. Although a lot of people still use and like the 300 series. the 200 series is nearly 8 years old..

I have a 400 series, and it's the next model up from the 300 series. (every 2 years oce brings out a new flatbed to update the old one) But it prints twice as fast with still 1 row of heads. The ink heads are much more advanced than you'd see on the 200 and 300 series machines. IICE the 200 series heads are older than the 300. I'm pretty sure now the 1200 & 2200 even newer heads than what i've got on my 400 series and what they run on the 600 series. (600 series has 2 rows of heads like the 550 and 2200. Ie production series)

I have never had a head issue with my 400 and i have 8 of them. technically 16 as the newer heads are actually 2 heads in 1.

As for the inks. Oce have a hand full of different inks, depending on what you're planning on doing. Inks are made by Fuji and developed for Oce. They do a lot of R&D on their inks and always updating them.

So to be honest, I couldn't and wouldn't take your info on the 200 series and apply them with the 400 & 1200 series at all.

I would happily buy another Oce again.

 

[DougWestwood]

Hi Pauly,

Thanks for the more current information, but I am certain that many of these 200/300 series tables are still running the previous inks, heads and software. Maybe you have the cash to spend 6 figures every two years. Most shops do not. I'm sure this info is valuable to most OCE users, especially those perhaps interested in buying a used machine.

All the best,
- Doug

 

[Pauly]

Hi Pauly,

Thanks for the more current information, but I am certain that many of these 200/300 series tables are still running the previous inks, heads and software. Maybe you have the cash to spend 6 figures every two years. Most shops do not. I'm sure this info is valuable to most OCE users, especially those perhaps interested in buying a used machine.

All the best,
- Doug

Doug, Changing inks doesn't cost you more than a new ink bag. Oce will recomend people to be using at least IJC256 inks or the newer IJC257.

But foremost, If anyone wants to be a used Arizona, It's always recommended to buy one directly from Oce. And they will not want to sell you a used 200 series. A lot of parts are obsolete and will end up costing you more than buying a newer used machine like a 300 series. You probably won't find many used 400 series as they're only 2-3 years old from when released.

But as the Original Post states 1200 series, any issues with the 200 or even the 300 series will not be valid on the 1200 or even a 400. the 400 is a complete redesign from the 300. the 1200 is a mix from the 400 and some new features from the 6100.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

1200 series comes with IJC257 only, so you'll already have better adhesion than previous inksets.

 

[Pauly]

1200 series comes with IJC257 only, so you'll already have better adhesion than previous inksets.

That's correct. all new machines from Oce are already fitted with IJC257 inks unless specified you want IJC278 which is a speciality ink for maximum adhesion but a very low colour gamut.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Pauly, which inks are you currently running? 256 or 257?
Finally got some low iron glass in today for a job. Should look good.
Can instantly tell the difference compared to regular glass.

 

[Pauly]

Still running 256 inks. Never had a problem really. I haven't thought about changing just yet. For the jobs we do, the extra adhesion isn't required.

Hard to tell but all low iron is different also depending on supplier.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Ended up with Viridian... looks better than previous stock.
Thanks for the info.