Offset printer taking the plunge, Help Please!

[densecity]

Hello,
Looking for some advice.
My family has been in the Offset print business for 25 years. In the last 3 years we have been doing a fair amount of wide format printing. Currently we billing around $100K yearly in wide format printing and feel it's time to get some machinery. I know there is no one machine solution to all needs, but we are debating which entry level machine.

Right now I am thinking either eco-sol, or latex.
I am debating the following 2 machines -
Roland VS or RS 640 64" (+ cutter if RS + Laminator)
HP L26500 60" (+ cutter and Laminator)

Most of our wide format business consists of:
Banners
Adh vinyl
mounted posters to foamcore
mounted prints to PVC
Mesh vinyl
Perf adh vinyl

Which cutter and laminators do you think compliment the machines the best?

Currently, which would you feel is a better machine? I am fully open to other options. My realistic budget is somewhere around $60K. For what I'm billing, would you think this is a worthy investment? Currently I am able to outsource and tag on around 40-60% Markup.

Thanks for the advice

 

[MGraphics]

I would say right now you are making a pretty good mark up, all you do is take it from one and give it to the other.... with buying more machinery comes more overhead and equipment cost like inks and material, electricity...especially for the HP.... there are lots of threads on here on those printers so read up on them and demo them for your self... I work in a shop that is offset/digital and we bought another company that had a sign shop in it so now as well we run a 60" UV flatbed and 60" aqiuous printer, 60" seal lamintor, 60" plotter, and a 104" foster keencut evolution. I am just one guy that runs it all but soemdays it can be too much.... I would say it is atlest a two man job to run this stuff.... so just some food for thought.... if you get the equipment you also have to add a couple of guys to run it$$$$

my $0.02

 

[10sacer]

You are nowhere near where you need to be to do it in -house yet - especially in the NYC area. You are surrounded by output providers and people who will wholesale to you. I would continue doing that until it gets to be WAY too much of a hassle waiting on someone else's production - and even then - Spending 2/3 of what you bill to get equipment is not a good move. You have to remember that its not just equipment you need - the most important piece is the right people operating the department and the machinery. You don't even want to try to re-purpose someone from offset prepress into the wide format arena - its totally different. On top of that you have computers, RIP software, color management (which you better already have in prepress), loads of materials and consumables. Better have alot of extra space and a temperature and humidity controlled environment, too.

 

[densecity]

Mgraphics, i understand I will need at least 2 people. My thought was to train some of my offset guys to multitask when they have time, on top of 1 new hire. Right now we run 2 shifts 6 days a week, 30 employees.

10sacer, You may be right. My frustration is when I need to wait for pricing, beg for rush turnaround, etc etc. I have people who will give me banners for $2sq ft, but when I need it in a day it's a problem. I thought at the level im at right now it would be a wise choice considering its not much of an investment )(compared to offset).

Thanks for the insight, please continue!

 

[ForgeInc]

Don't let em discourage you...I think their advice is wise, but since you are already doing a slew of offset I think you are most likely in a different situation than most.

That said the pre press end of things IS totally different, I know firsthand from experience. I would also start trying to sell large format services amongst your current reps more heavily if you take the plunge. Get them educated in it!

Can't offer much advice about the equipment, but I say go for it! I'm a firm believer that if you have a solid plan in place with a good reputation and strong list of existing clients, if you build it they will come.

 

[300mphGraphics]

100k in large format billing is more than enough to justify the purchase. Large format isn't that different than pre-press for offset. My 5 year old RIP computer for my platesetter is the same I use to run Flexi for my Mutoh, at the same time. I'd love for it to be faster, but it more than works for 95% of our projects. Our offset shop is in its 20th year and LF in its 4th and has over-taken offset in $. We have a great print provider (cdiesel @ AZ Pro) two hours down the road or a one day ship, but having it in house makes a HUGE difference in being able to offer the level of service we need.

 

[rjssigns]

Mgraphics, i understand I will need at least 2 people. My thought was to train some of my offset guys to multitask when they have time, on top of 1 new hire. Right now we run 2 shifts 6 days a week, 30 employees.

10sacer, You may be right. My frustration is when I need to wait for pricing, beg for rush turnaround, etc etc. I have people who will give me banners for $2sq ft, but when I need it in a day it's a problem. I thought at the level im at right now it would be a wise choice considering its not much of an investment )(compared to offset).

Thanks for the insight, please continue!

The solution is quite simple if you follow our new business model. For the small and last minute "rush" jobs we produce in house with basic equipment. Roland SP540V/RS1650 Laminator. All others get subbed out. I like the new set-up. When I sub out I can close another job or deal with a new client, not run the equipment. Lather, rinse, repeat.LOL
Talk to BigFish and get some used equipment. You can thank me later.

 

[densecity]

I really appreciate the advise, on both ends of the spectrum.

Can anyone give some advise on machinery?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[rjssigns]

The older Roland's like mine are built like a tank. So are the Mimaki and Mutoh if you are going used. Otherwise I like the speed of the latest Mutoh, Epson, and Seiko.
If you're not pressed for time you could wait until the two WIT Color printers get rockin'. Thanks to a forum member in Chicago and one in Africa we will get first hand feedback. chris190 bought a double DX5 for 7 grand delivered. I think it is 1.6m wide. Should be a rocket. If it all pans out my next one will be from China.

 

[john1]

$100k in wide format alone isn't enough to buy a machine yet? Get out of here.

I make a 1/4 of what you do on wide format and i bought a 30" versacamm and it's the best thing i have bought. Wholesaling still happens but i don't often have a call for anything larger currently than my machine, Just here and there.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

With 30 employees, 2 shifts and 100k in WF sales I have to wonder why you're even bothering.

 

[Robert M]

Mutoh

The 54" Mutoh Value jet with take up and basic RIP is now showing a list price of $14,995
You can get a 54" Mimaki printer cutter with take up for $19,995 and they give you $1984.00 worth of ink.
HP is driving down the prices, Roland's are looking expensive