Oh, I really went and did it now! In serious need of help or suggestions.

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

I did a Gemini GemLeaf installation for a local CPA in early 2018. This month they moved into a new office which has all been newly remodeled. After weighing whether or nor removal and relocation was possible, I worked up a quote and away I went removing the old letters with plans to relocate them, thinking this was an okay approach. It didn't save the customer a ton of money but I was able to price it at about 2/3 of the cost of new letters. In doing so, I decided to place some transfer tape over the top of the letters and trim it away around the edges of each letter, then proceed to cut the letters off the wall by cutting through the double sided tape with fishing line. This was a lot of work, but after about 1.5 hours, the letters were removed and all was well, or so I thought. The transfer tape was put in place to protect the letters in transit and while removing and replacing the tape on the back side. Removal of the old tape from the back of the acrylic was relatively easy and everything seemed to be going smoothly. We used the recommended 3M double sided tape to replace the old tape and the letters sat in our climate controlled shop until the day of installation, which was a period of about 6 weeks.

Last night I showed up at the new office to install the letters onto the new wall. Once all the letters were installed, I started peeling away the transfer tape and noticed that anywhere where there was a bubble or wrinkle in the transfer tape, the GemLeaf finish was compromised. It looks like some sort of weird oxidation/chemical reaction and upon closer inspection, as seen in some of the photos, it even appears that the finish has been depleted or eroded. I called Gemini and even though they have had some reports of this happening from others in the past, they have no suggestions as to what we can possibly do to fix it, which leads me to believe that there is no fixing it and that trying to remove and relocate GemLeaf letters is just a bad idea altogether.

I'm going to watch some YouTube videos and see if there is anything at all that I can do to try to restore the brushed finish on these to at least look 90% as good as the original, but this is going to stress me out, for sure. Gemini is sending me a couple samples of the brushed aluminum letters that I can experiment on, plus we have a couple small samples here already in our shop that I'm going to play around with also. I'm hoping something as simple as brushing over the grain with Scotchbrite or some fine grit sandpaper in the 400 range might be enough to fix the flaws that appear to affect about 75% of the letters. I know that GemLeaf itself is a very thin coating, so I won't be able to sand a whole lot, but if I'm lucky maybe it won't take much. If I'm not lucky, I'll be cutting the letters off the wall and replacing them all, like I guess I should have just done in the first place.

Has anyone here ever run into this issue? If so, were you able to fix it and how did you go about fixing it? I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point. 2022 is starting off to be a bad year thus far.

 

[unclebun]

Sure it's not just adhesive stuck on the letters?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If I had to guess I would say that is anodized and it is peeling off. If that's the case, there isn't much saving it.

 

[Gino]

We just did this about a month ago. However, we didn't put any transfer tape on them and when we got to the shop, we put them upside down on a carpeted table with thick shag. No problems except one of the letters was sorta bent, but believe it or not, we got the bend out with no problem.

What you have there looks like its oxidizing, possibly from your transfer tape. If you can't remove the haze or it doesn't go away, I'd say, when ya pulled the tape off, it did something to the laminate.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Sure it's not just adhesive stuck on the letters?

I forgot to mention, I tried adhesive remover and alcohol to clean them and it didn't do a thing.

 

[2B]

it looks like the surface coating on the letters is damaged, oxidation or even coating delamination
maybe flame treatment? just a guess
what tape did you use?

since you already spoke with Gemini, I'm guessing this does NOT fall under the "lifetime warranty"

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

We just did this about a month ago. However, we didn't put any transfer tape on them and when we got to the shop, we put them upside down on a carpeted table with thick shag. No problems except one of the letters was sorta bent, but believe it or not, we got the bend out with no problem.

What you have there looks like its oxidizing, possibly from your transfer tape. If you can't remove the haze or it doesn't go away, I'd say, when ya pulled the tape off, it did something to the laminate.

The thing is, the problem only occurred where there was air between the tape and the GemLeaf surface. In other words, the problem is only where there were bubbles or wrinkles present in the tape. Any surface where the tape was completely bonded across the surface of the Gem Leaf is just fine. I'm wishing I had gone back and peeled the tape up and laid it back down to remove any bubbles but I never would have guessed in a million years that this would have happened. It's the weirdest thing ever and par for the course with the way this new year is going so far. So, yeah, I can't see it pulling anything from the surface when IU removed the tape because the tape was never bonded to the surface in those areas in the first place. It's like some strange reaction between the adhesive and the air, as weird as that sounds.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

it looks like the surface coating on the letters is damaged, oxidation or even coating delamination
maybe flame treatment? just a guess
what tape did you use?

since you already spoke with Gemini, I'm guessing this does NOT fall under the "lifetime warranty"

Exactly, they will not cover it, which is another great reason to never do this again. I used RTape 4075RLA.

 

[2B]

Exactly, they will not cover it, which is another great reason to never do this again. I used RTape 4075RLA.

for future reference, we have had good luck (knock wood) using TransferRite 582U Medium Tack for short-term surface protection.

We STRONGLY discourage recycle / reuse jobs from customers. rarely do they go without issues that typically come out of our pocket

 

[CanuckSigns]

Believe it or not, stainless steel appliance cleaner will help with the issue, not fix necessarily. We did a state shape, glued studs to the back, and put transfer tape over the face to transport. Peeled the tape off on site and it looked like trash. After a little bit of love with some appliance cleaner, it was passable, though not perfect. It's really odd how the mask seems to rapidly oxidize the areas that are bubbled, initially looking like adhesive until you feel it and there are no raised areas. Alcohol, rapid remover, rapid tac, dawn, nothing appeared to make a change, but this stuff seemed to add a layer that clouded/hazed the finish enough for the 'discolored' areas to be hidden. Spray into rag/paper towel to avoid getting it on the wall.

Yes we've done this before, also 3 in 1 oil works well too, it will eventually dry out and the issue will return, but it can be reapplied by the client while you remind him that they wanted to cheap out and reuse the letters....

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Believe it or not, stainless steel appliance cleaner will help with the issue, not fix necessarily. We did a state shape, glued studs to the back, and put transfer tape over the face to transport. Peeled the tape off on site and it looked like trash. After a little bit of love with some appliance cleaner, it was passable, though not perfect. It's really odd how the mask seems to rapidly oxidize the areas that are bubbled, initially looking like adhesive until you feel it and there are no raised areas. Alcohol, rapid remover, rapid tac, dawn, nothing appeared to make a change, but this stuff seemed to add a layer that clouded/hazed the finish enough for the 'discolored' areas to be hidden. Spray into rag/paper towel to avoid getting it on the wall.

Thanks so much for this suggestion. I'm pretty sure we have some of this at home that I can try out. It's also good to find someone else who's had this same thing happen so that I know it's not an isolated issue. I just hope it works well enough, but I am definitely trying this. Thanks!

Yes we've done this before, also 3 in 1 oil works well too, it will eventually dry out and the issue will return, but it can be reapplied by the client while you remind him that they wanted to cheap out and reuse the letters....

Thanks. I will keep this in mind as a possible backup plan.

 

[Z SIGNS]

My first salvage attempt would be brush on some clearshield matt. Stuff covers a lot sins.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Worst case (before replacing the letters) you could try wrap the faces with a brushed metal look wrap vinyl.

 

[Precision]

We try not to put ourselves in this situation, without telling the client there is always a possibility for failure when trying to save money by moving a sign.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I wouldn't be wasting a bunch of time trying to salvage it.

 

[Drip Dry]

Worst case (before replacing the letters) you could try wrap the faces with a brushed metal look wrap vinyl.

This is a great suggestion

 

[Bill DiStasio]

I did a Gemini GemLeaf installation for a local CPA in early 2018. This month they moved into a new office which has all been newly remodeled. After weighing whether or nor removal and relocation was possible, I worked up a quote and away I went removing the old letters with plans to relocate them, thinking this was an okay approach. It didn't save the customer a ton of money but I was able to price it at about 2/3 of the cost of new letters. In doing so, I decided to place some transfer tape over the top of the letters and trim it away around the edges of each letter, then proceed to cut the letters off the wall by cutting through the double sided tape with fishing line. This was a lot of work, but after about 1.5 hours, the letters were removed and all was well, or so I thought. The transfer tape was put in place to protect the letters in transit and while removing and replacing the tape on the back side. Removal of the old tape from the back of the acrylic was relatively easy and everything seemed to be going smoothly. We used the recommended 3M double sided tape to replace the old tape and the letters sat in our climate controlled shop until the day of installation, which was a period of about 6 weeks.

Last night I showed up at the new office to install the letters onto the new wall. Once all the letters were installed, I started peeling away the transfer tape and noticed that anywhere where there was a bubble or wrinkle in the transfer tape, the GemLeaf finish was compromised. It looks like some sort of weird oxidation/chemical reaction and upon closer inspection, as seen in some of the photos, it even appears that the finish has been depleted or eroded. I called Gemini and even though they have had some reports of this happening from others in the past, they have no suggestions as to what we can possibly do to fix it, which leads me to believe that there is no fixing it and that trying to remove and relocate GemLeaf letters is just a bad idea altogether.

I'm going to watch some YouTube videos and see if there is anything at all that I can do to try to restore the brushed finish on these to at least look 90% as good as the original, but this is going to stress me out, for sure. Gemini is sending me a couple samples of the brushed aluminum letters that I can experiment on, plus we have a couple small samples here already in our shop that I'm going to play around with also. I'm hoping something as simple as brushing over the grain with Scotchbrite or some fine grit sandpaper in the 400 range might be enough to fix the flaws that appear to affect about 75% of the letters. I know that GemLeaf itself is a very thin coating, so I won't be able to sand a whole lot, but if I'm lucky maybe it won't take much. If I'm not lucky, I'll be cutting the letters off the wall and replacing them all, like I guess I should have just done in the first place.

Has anyone here ever run into this issue? If so, were you able to fix it and how did you go about fixing it? I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point. 2022 is starting off to be a bad year thus far.



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Maybe you could try a coating of varnish. Can't hurt since you can't use them otherwise.

 

[Proofread People]

I forgot to mention, I tried adhesive remover and alcohol to clean them and it didn't do a thing.

We can feel your pain. We order from Gemini and cut our own acrylic. Our laser guy here uses something called SEM 38353 PREP Plastic and Leather Prep (sounds weird I know) but it cleans any gooey, sticky adhesive without damaging the acrylic surface. He prefers it over goo-gone or alcohol. We've had our share of marred acrylic surfaces for various reasons. Also, been there done that in removing existing interior lettering and re-installing. We always, always make sure the customer understands that we will not guarantee that the letters aren't damaged along the process and that letters may have to be replaced. I know hindsight is 20/20. Good luck.

 

[Skooter]

I feel your pain. No matter how long we have been in the business, no matter how careful we think we are and that we've covered all the angles, we still run into these situations. We had a similar issue with a Gemini plaque happen several years back. The customer wanted it covered until the "great reveal" for a ceremony in just a few days. We thought we could use a vehicle vinyl that would easily be removed when the time came. What we didn't count on was the clear coat reacting with the adhesive after baking in the sun for a few days. I told Gemini what happened and they replaced it at no charge. I guess at the time they felt like their exterior grade clearcoat should not have come off so easily. Your situation is a little different, but if you do end up replacing the letters I would think that Gemini would discount the redo. If an order is made after a customer approval and it needs to be redone due to the customer's mistake Gemini discounts the cost of the redo 50%. Gemini is a very customer service oriented company. If you do end up replacing the logo and haven't asked them it would be worth a shot to see if they would treat it like a remake. It would be 50% less painful.

 

[Proofread People]

Believe it or not, stainless steel appliance cleaner will help with the issue, not fix necessarily. We did a state shape, glued studs to the back, and put transfer tape over the face to transport. Peeled the tape off on site and it looked like trash. After a little bit of love with some appliance cleaner, it was passable, though not perfect. It's really odd how the mask seems to rapidly oxidize the areas that are bubbled, initially looking like adhesive until you feel it and there are no raised areas. Alcohol, rapid remover, rapid tac, dawn, nothing appeared to make a change, but this stuff seemed to add a layer that clouded/hazed the finish enough for the 'discolored' areas to be hidden. Spray into rag/paper towel to avoid getting it on the wall.

I wonder if the air trapped in the air bubble is the cause of the reaction. So weird, you'd think transfer tape is the least aggressive of adhesive.