Okay, I think I have a winner here..................................................................................

[gnubler]

I have zero sympathy for teachers who say their job is so hard - if it's that hard, I hear Jiffy Lube is hiring.

Are you frickin kidding? I feel bad for teachers, and dealing with the children is probably the least of their stressors. Between dealing with difficult parents and all the bureaucratic BS, it's amazing how so many of them hold on as long as they do.

Jiffy Lube employees look like thug killers that aren't really hire-able anywhere else. I went to one a few years ago and it looked more like a tattoo parlor with all the ink sleeves and face tats (aka prison brandings).

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Most schools are total failures. They are glorified daycare centers that masquerade as educators. The illiteracy rates of high school graduates is all the proof I'll ever need to make that point; there are people who graduate high school who can't read above a fifth grade level. These graduates will have a really hard time in their lives, and all the while the people whose responsibility it was to teach them have months of time off, a pension, healthcare, snow days off, and on and on and on. I have zero sympathy for teachers who say their job is so hard - if it's that hard, I hear Jiffy Lube is hiring.

As far as solutions go, I say the first step would be to let parents who want to pull their kids (ant their tax dollars) out of a school do it. Let the free market start coming up with better and cheaper solutions for educating kids. This would make schools have some accountability to their customers (the parents and students), as opposed to the current model of no accountability whatsoever under any circumstances. You either teach my kid or I take back my money - it could be just that simple.

Remember, the concept of school was initially put in place to make good little obedient soldiers who would follow orders. It hasn't ever been about teaching kids life lessons or about teaching them morality; it's always been about obedience and pledging allegiance to the flag and fitting into little rows and columns. Force feeding kids the narrative. Curating the historical record so that they churn out little patriotic workers. State run education is indoctrination, and it should end.

Nonsense. You can't fix stupid. There are no more issues with schools today than there were 50 years ago. It is not there to teach you how to fix your car or how to balance a checkbook or how to make your bed, it is there to teach you fundamentals so you can think on your own. Parents need to be accountable, what the hell is wrong with this country and wanting to blame everything in sight for their own self created shitty life or inability to manage their finances? The elephant in the room with homeschooling is that most people are dumb, plain and simple. So if you want to perpetuate stupidity then by all means let the ignorant teach their kids. Kids also need socialization, that's just a big a part of your formal education as is the actual studies themselves.

 

[Johnny Best]

Prussian format, was I part of that? Was that run by Eric vonzipper?

 

[Johnny Best]

Some of my grandkids go to private school. I think they need to go to public school. Gives them of sense what they are dealing with later in life. Those children in Gaza can load a rocket, and break down an automatic rifle plus they have learned how to dig tunnels and go without food for days. Now that’s an education.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

The new thing now is to reject everything to make it seem like you know something everyone else doesn't. School is bad, college is worse, healthcare and doctors are wrong, everyone is out to get you. I look at how successful the people that are preaching this, and that's all I need to know.

 

[Snydo]

The new thing now is to reject everything to make it seem like you know something everyone else doesn't. School is bad, college is worse, healthcare and doctors are wrong, everyone is out to get you. I look at how successful the people that are preaching this, and that's all I need to know.

I saw this quote a few years ago and it struck me how accurately it explains the current world we live in.

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”​

― Charles Bukowski

 

[Boudica]

I saw this quote a few years ago and it struck me how accurately it explains the current world we live in.

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”​

― Charles Bukowski

Current world? This has been true since the beginning of people. They probably said this in medieval times too just - with more thees and thys.

 

[MNT_Printhead]

I really owe my career for going to a votech from half a day from high school for twos year for a grand total of $60 and paying for hours earned at a local community college later that cleared close to half the degree (I had to retake a few classes). I went to learn illustrator after my brother gave me PS and AI in 96 and struggled learning illy; this class had 2 T-heads and one 4 color Heidelberg, Camera and stripping setup, walk in camera dark room. I focused on printing after the dot com bust when print and web desinger was one job and wound up in large format not having a degree. I earn more than my friend with university degrees they are still paying on. I also got a longer lunch which allowed my classmates and I to get high before learning something we were interested in.

The saddest part about this tale is that the votechs are now "Tech Centers" and the print aspect is no longer there, most likely to cut cost or the people who ran it retired. They certainly didn't have the funnel of students to jobs 90 they had in the early 90s, offset has been decimated and merged for the big plants like Frederick. I have heard of a few high schools with inkjet programs, but I doubt that many beyond drop outs stick with it.

I have to wonder if the younger generation even has attention for details and a sense of urgency. My last employee would not cut a complete set of prints, package, and move one out of the way - had to touch his phone every cut or two for a few minutes; he would instead cover every work area with his mess making me unable to use equipment or join him on one of our two work tables. Listening? More like listening to a podcast when I have told you 5 times in an hour to check for head strikes and they let the printer run half a roll striking all but the first print. I got a call from him that afternoon saying a few were messed up so I lammed them to see they all were the next morning.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I saw this quote a few years ago and it struck me how accurately it explains the current world we live in.

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”​

― Charles Bukowski

The dunning-kruger effect

 

[ikarasu]

Schools have been dumbed down a lot, so I kind of get "part" of what is being said. Everyone is PC - You're not allowed to fail a grade.... You could literally not understand anything, and they'll throw you into the next grade so you learn more stuff you wont be able to understand. They'll give you a helper whos also helping 20 other kids, but you can make it to grade 12 without reading. They call it "Age appropriate advancement" here. Here's an excerpt from our Canadian city, but its like this is most provinces... and I think USA too? Before you'd get lazy teachers who would pass students because they didnt want to put in any effort.... So kids would still slip under the radar, but now the teachers have no control. My kid is in grade 6... and theres about 5 kids in his class who cant read or do basic math.

"According to official Toronto District School Board policy, a student will be held back “only after all alternatives are exhausted and only in exceptional circumstances.” Not only does a student need to fail every single core course, but the student's overall average must be at Level 1 (the lowest possible level)"


The governments / leave no kid behind is producing a dumber society. School is still better than no school... And I'd never advocate to be allowed to keep your kid out of class, But having a kid who's going through the system now, it feels far, far different than when I went to school 20 years ago.... And it doesnt matter if you have a teacher who cares and puts their heart and soul into teaching, if you have a bad student or a bad parent they'll just skate by.

I've been going back and fourth about sending my kid to a private school for highschool - We moved to our location because it had the top public schools in the province, But I too sometimes feel like it's a glorified daycare.

My kid came to me the other day saying he couldnt finish his work for the day because he didn't understand something.. It was some weird ass new way to do math, I knew the answers.,.. but they wanted it done in a very specific, certain way. I told him he'd have to ask his teacher... He went and asked the teacher for some help on how to do it the next day And the teacher just told him not to worry about it... Marked it down as a "Complete" grade and that was that.... We spend A LOT of time teaching him the "old" way of doing math problems because the new way is based on memorizing certain things instead of actually working the problem out. I figured if they cant fail him, who cares if he does it the weird shitty new way, and this way he learns to solve problems VS memorizing them.

 

[Boudica]

There are threads and conversations going on all the time at some moment here on s101 about customers and their horrible artwork, timeframes and cost issues. I think this one takes the cake. It hits all of them.

Lady e-mailed yesterday late morning about needing a sign by early tomorrow (which is now today). I answered back after about 7 minutes what I could do for her at the sizes she requested. 2 hours later, she replied, too much money. We need to get it lower. I wrote back and told her all of her options, but at that size most of them will be flimsy and probably fall off the easel. About 1.5 hours later she responded again and I told her, she's running outta time. Got an e-mail last night at 7:30 with more questions. Didn't answer those. E-mailed her this morning with her options again.... and said, besides it's already getting past your deadline. She said, we have til tomorrow afternoon. So, she sent a new file and I didn't have about 9 of the fonts and they got substituted. Then she said, the artwork is set 25.5 x 33, close to 2.5' with a .125 crop. So, I calmly told her that her sizes are all messed up, that in her original request she was asking for a job 36" x 59". I still don't have the correct artwork.

There should be a Sign Guild Firing Squad for hire.

Back to the OP.......... So, with the direction this thread has gone, I'm curious.... how old would you say this lady is? Is she a product of "today's" schooling, or from an older generation who thinks school was more effective back in their day?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Schools have been dumbed down a lot, so I kind of get "part" of what is being said. Everyone is PC - You're not allowed to fail a grade.... You could literally not understand anything, and they'll throw you into the next grade so you learn more stuff you wont be able to understand. They'll give you a helper whos also helping 20 other kids, but you can make it to grade 12 without reading. They call it "Age appropriate advancement" here. Here's an excerpt from our Canadian city, but its like this is most provinces... and I think USA too? Before you'd get lazy teachers who would pass students because they didnt want to put in any effort.... So kids would still slip under the radar, but now the teachers have no control. My kid is in grade 6... and theres about 5 kids in his class who cant read or do basic math.

"According to official Toronto District School Board policy, a student will be held back “only after all alternatives are exhausted and only in exceptional circumstances.” Not only does a student need to fail every single core course, but the student's overall average must be at Level 1 (the lowest possible level)"


The governments / leave no kid behind is producing a dumber society. School is still better than no school... And I'd never advocate to be allowed to keep your kid out of class, But having a kid who's going through the system now, it feels far, far different than when I went to school 20 years ago.... And it doesnt matter if you have a teacher who cares and puts their heart and soul into teaching, if you have a bad student or a bad parent they'll just skate by.

I've been going back and fourth about sending my kid to a private school for highschool - We moved to our location because it had the top public schools in the province, But I too sometimes feel like it's a glorified daycare.

My kid came to me the other day saying he couldnt finish his work for the day because he didn't understand something.. It was some weird ass new way to do math, I knew the answers.,.. but they wanted it done in a very specific, certain way. I told him he'd have to ask his teacher... He went and asked the teacher for some help on how to do it the next day And the teacher just told him not to worry about it... Marked it down as a "Complete" grade and that was that.... We spend A LOT of time teaching him the "old" way of doing math problems because the new way is based on memorizing certain things instead of actually working the problem out. I figured if they cant fail him, who cares if he does it the weird shitty new way, and this way he learns to solve problems VS memorizing them.

Failing kids and holding them back grades ends up having bad outcomes. On face value it sounds dumb and unfair but it's about the end goal of having functioning members of society. Even when I was in middle school they took kids that had failed a previous grade and skipped them ahead. It's an emotional maturity mismatch thing. Kids that are held back have a much greater potential of dropping out of school which leads them down a very bad path. Pushing them through allows them to mature enough before being thrown out in the world. Some kids just don't do well in school either but things go sideways when people give up, especially with teenagers. The story is still the same, passing some numbnuts through school doesn't take anything away from the high achievers. At risk kids that turn into criminals do take away from everyone's quality of life though. Basically, you pick your poison.

 

[GAC05]

I wonder what Taylor Swift thinks of this.

 

[MNT_Printhead]

I wonder what Taylor Swift thinks of this.

Same as me, "Fuck them kids" we don't have any.

I still vote to raise my taxes for public education, their parent's aren't helping at all with both education and funding of it. Tik Tok generation is our final warning of the the people who will dictate our world when we are "retired".

 

[ikarasu]

Failing kids and holding them back grades ends up having bad outcomes. On face value it sounds dumb and unfair but it's about the end goal of having functioning members of society. Even when I was in middle school they took kids that had failed a previous grade and skipped them ahead. It's an emotional maturity mismatch thing. Kids that are held back have a much greater potential of dropping out of school which leads them down a very bad path. Pushing them through allows them to mature enough before being thrown out in the world. Some kids just don't do well in school either but things go sideways when people give up, especially with teenagers. The story is still the same, passing some numbnuts through school doesn't take anything away from the high achievers. At risk kids that turn into criminals do take away from everyone's quality of life though. Basically, you pick your poison.

My problem is passing them through a grade when they don't understand the core functions all but guarantees they won't understand the next grades functions.

Math for example - my kid struggled in grade 1 math - they passed him and he understood nothing in grade 2. It's a huge catch-up if you're missing the previous years basics.

My kid always took twice as long as math as others... I'd much rather they failed him, or made him take summer school to pass math, so he went into grade 2 math with the proper knowledge on how to do it.... Vs constantly being behind. His teachers didn't even tell us he was struggling or not understanding the curriculum.

We spent 30 mins a day with him catching him up and explaining how to do things - which of course isn't the way the school taught him, so he still struggled in grade 2/3 - we had to enroll him in private tutoring so he could learn the core math the way the school does it, after a few months he caught up and now he's ahead of the other kids in math.

So by not failing or holding him back, ornat the very least telling his he needs improvement in certain things.... He struggled for years.

I get having a kid fail and not goto the next year with his classmates sucks, but our current system isn't perfect either. Maybe it's better, maybe less kids get left behind.... Maybe they've decided not every kid needs school, but I bet you the same 5 kids in his class who can't read or do basic math are the same 5 kids in grade 12 who can't read or do math. Blindly passing any kid can harm the kid just as much as holding them back, imo.

There is no perfect solution, It just feels to me like it's a participation trophy more than anything now.

What's next... A subpar employee shouldn't get a review, or get fired for doing a job half as good as the next guy because at least he's working and being a part of society? There should be some limit to where this ends... Otherwise in 30 years it'll be half the class who can't do basic things and gets a free pass, then society as a whole is much worst off.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

My problem is passing them through a grade when they don't understand the core functions all but guarantees they won't understand the next grades functions.

Math for example - my kid struggled in grade 1 math - they passed him and he understood nothing in grade 2. It's a huge catch-up if you're missing the previous years basics.

My kid always took twice as long as math as others... I'd much rather they failed him, or made him take summer school to pass math, so he went into grade 2 math with the proper knowledge on how to do it.... Vs constantly being behind. His teachers didn't even tell us he was struggling or not understanding the curriculum.

We spent 30 mins a day with him catching him up and explaining how to do things - which of course isn't the way the school taught him, so he still struggled in grade 2/3 - we had to enroll him in private tutoring so he could learn the core math the way the school does it, after a few months he caught up and now he's ahead of the other kids in math.

So by not failing or holding him back, ornat the very least telling his he needs improvement in certain things.... He struggled for years.

I get having a kid fail and not goto the next year with his classmates sucks, but our current system isn't perfect either. Maybe it's better, maybe less kids get left behind.... Maybe they've decided not every kid needs school, but I bet you the same 5 kids in his class who can't read or do basic math are the same 5 kids in grade 12 who can't read or do math. Blindly passing any kid can harm the kid just as much as holding them back, imo.

There is no perfect solution, It just feels to me like it's a participation trophy more than anything now.

What's next... A subpar employee shouldn't get a review, or get fired for doing a job half as good as the next guy because at least he's working and being a part of society? There should be some limit to where this ends... Otherwise in 30 years it'll be half the class who can't do basic things and gets a free pass, then society as a whole is much worst off.

Some people just won't learn and can't be taught anything. It's a real thing so what do you do with that? Keep trying until they're geriatric patients?
As far as employees, that absolutely happens everyday. It's not about getting a free pass, it's still the same end result that the ones who put in the effort reap the rewards so what does it matter?
Say you're playing chess, winner gets $5000 and you win. Then they give the loser $5000 also because they feel bad. Did it change your outcome? So why isn't it fair?
Now let's say they gave you $10k for winning and then tell you after that the loser gets $5k? Is that fair? I'm having a hard time grasping this.

 

[GAC05]

What's next... A subpar employee shouldn't get a review, or get fired for doing a job half as good as the next guy because at least he's working and being a part of society? There should be some limit to where this ends... Otherwise in 30 years it'll be half the class who can't do basic things and gets a free pass, then society as a whole is much worst off.

Navy to allow those without high school diploma or GED to enlist​

Navy to allow those without high school diploma or GED to enlist

The Navy last allowed entry of candidates without a high school diploma or GED more than 20 years ago.

www.navytimes.com

 

[Notarealsignguy]

My problem is passing them through a grade when they don't understand the core functions all but guarantees they won't understand the next grades functions.

Math for example - my kid struggled in grade 1 math - they passed him and he understood nothing in grade 2. It's a huge catch-up if you're missing the previous years basics.

My kid always took twice as long as math as others... I'd much rather they failed him, or made him take summer school to pass math, so he went into grade 2 math with the proper knowledge on how to do it.... Vs constantly being behind. His teachers didn't even tell us he was struggling or not understanding the curriculum.

We spent 30 mins a day with him catching him up and explaining how to do things - which of course isn't the way the school taught him, so he still struggled in grade 2/3 - we had to enroll him in private tutoring so he could learn the core math the way the school does it, after a few months he caught up and now he's ahead of the other kids in math.

So by not failing or holding him back, ornat the very least telling his he needs improvement in certain things.... He struggled for years.

I get having a kid fail and not goto the next year with his classmates sucks, but our current system isn't perfect either. Maybe it's better, maybe less kids get left behind.... Maybe they've decided not every kid needs school, but I bet you the same 5 kids in his class who can't read or do basic math are the same 5 kids in grade 12 who can't read or do math. Blindly passing any kid can harm the kid just as much as holding them back, imo.

There is no perfect solution, It just feels to me like it's a participation trophy more than anything now.

What's next... A subpar employee shouldn't get a review, or get fired for doing a job half as good as the next guy because at least he's working and being a part of society? There should be some limit to where this ends... Otherwise in 30 years it'll be half the class who can't do basic things and gets a free pass, then society as a whole is much worst off.

Also, this isn't a new thing. My buddy is pretty much illiterate but graduated high school. He's not alone in my age group.

 

[GAC05]

 

[ikarasu]

Some people just won't learn and can't be taught anything. It's a real thing so what do you do with that? Keep trying until they're geriatric patients?
As far as employees, that absolutely happens everyday. It's not about getting a free pass, it's still the same end result that the ones who put in the effort reap the rewards so what does it matter?
Say you're playing chess, winner gets $5000 and you win. Then they give the loser $5000 also because they feel bad. Did it change your outcome? So why isn't it fair?
Now let's say they gave you $10k for winning and then tell you after that the loser gets $5k? Is that fair? I'm having a hard time grasping this.

Competition and rewards push people harder. I have no problem giving 2nd or 3rd or 55th place ribbons .. but that's how it started, now most sports involving kids are "for fun" and they don't even keep track of score. Again in Ontario... But the whole province / soccer league mandated that all soccer games be a no score / win / lose type game. So kids couldn't compete.... What's their motivation to be better?

It pissed off most kids that they privately started to keep track of scores. Losing is just as important as winning - teaching people where their strengths are, and aren't, helps them later in life as well.

What if the NFL stopped keeping scores? It'd be boring....no one would watch, The players wouldn't want to play or compete anymore, it'd ruin the sport - so why is high school, or even regular school any different?

I suck at sports. I know I suck, and I'm not crying or feelinng left out because I suck. I'm not damaged.... I'm not worst off because I never won a participation trophy - there's other ways to boost kids confidence.

I'm not into sports, and my kid likely won't be either... I'd never be one of those for hard dad's screaming at the side lines at a children's game... But I also think giving trophies to everyone / not keeping track of scores takes away from the people who do practice for 10 hours a day, do put their blood and sweat at perfecting a sport.

Does a participation trophy take away from their achievements? No... But mandating all games are no score / no win / or lose sure does.