Okay, I think I have a winner here..................................................................................

[JBurton]

That's human nature. You never worked with an older person that couldn't keep their head straight? I've worked with more older people that could not read or write more than young people.

I just mean to say, it's not that they can't read, basically they don't. The 20% or whatever figure is folks that can still do everyday stuff, order off the menu at mcdonalds, or peruse facebook.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I just mean to say, it's not that they can't read, basically they don't. The 20% or whatever figure is folks that can still do everyday stuff, order off the menu at mcdonalds, or peruse facebook.

I meant straight up can't read or write. Full on 100%. Being able to read and write in a functional but low capacity isn't the same as being illiterate. I don't see a problem with being a functional reader if it does not impair someone's life. Technically, you only need to learn enough to get by so that to me blows holes in the school is broke argument. We all could learn more, we could all do better, we could all work more and harder so why is good enough ok for us but not for anyone else?

 

[MNT_Printhead]

When I was young I worked a philly cheese steak shop and I was amazed how many or our patrons would look at the menu for 5 minutes or more then turn around and ask how much for a sandwich by name then ask how much it was as if they didn't understand numbers.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

. Why do you think tiktok videos only slap single sentences for you to read at a time?

I thought that so people up there in Arkansas could follow along.

 

[Stacey K]

A few years back our school went from ABCDF to 1234. From what my son told me, the teachers were NOT happy about this. I think colleges switched to 1234 so the school wanted to match that? It made it impossible to get a 1, in order to get a 1 (A?) you had to do work in the above grade level. So, my A student ended up being a B student - along with all the other students. And they did away with the gifted and talented program AND honor roll!!!

Getting the gold or purple honor roll was a big deal! They posted their names in the newspaper and of course lots of kids got $$$ or small awards from their parents (mine included).

To me, this is a major failure of the school system - lumping everyone in the same box. Rest assured, if your kid is a star on the football team - HIS NAME IS SPLASHED ALL OVER.

 

[JBurton]

I thought that so people up there in Arkansas could follow along.

That's what the ai voiceover is for...

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Here's another statistic.

"Nationally, public school spending per student experienced the largest fiscal year-to-year increase since 2008, up 6.3% to $14,347, according to new data from the 2021 Annual Survey of School System Finances released today by the U.S. Census Bureau."

So, every year, we spend around $14,347 per student and we still have the 19% illiteracy rate.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

they did away with the gifted and talented program AND honor roll!!!

That's a big disservice to the kids. The gifted programs exist because those kids are in the at risk category and require a different learning structure. It's more along the lines of a learning disability than it is a gift but when everyone thinks they're a genius there's no value in intellect anymore. There are people setting school policy that have absolutely no business being involved in it. Look up the Peter principal in business. You basically end up with a bunch of incompetence at the top:
The Peter principle is therefore expressed as: "In a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." This leads to Peter's corollary: "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."

 

[Boudica]

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Here's another statistic.

"Nationally, public school spending per student experienced the largest fiscal year-to-year increase since 2008, up 6.3% to $14,347, according to new data from the 2021 Annual Survey of School System Finances released today by the U.S. Census Bureau."

So, every year, we spend around $14,347 per student and we still have the 19% illiteracy rate.

That tells you absolutely nothing, at all. I could spend $500k on a Ferrari but it wouldn't make me a better driver.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

hey. It's over when Gino yells "Thats Enough!" and no sooner than that

 

[MGB_LE]

There are threads and conversations going on all the time at some moment here on s101 about customers and their horrible artwork, timeframes and cost issues. I think this one takes the cake. It hits all of them.

Lady e-mailed yesterday late morning about needing a sign by early tomorrow (which is now today). I answered back after about 7 minutes what I could do for her at the sizes she requested. 2 hours later, she replied, too much money. We need to get it lower. I wrote back and told her all of her options, but at that size most of them will be flimsy and probably fall off the easel. About 1.5 hours later she responded again and I told her, she's running outta time. Got an e-mail last night at 7:30 with more questions. Didn't answer those. E-mailed her this morning with her options again.... and said, besides it's already getting past your deadline. She said, we have til tomorrow afternoon. So, she sent a new file and I didn't have about 9 of the fonts and they got substituted. Then she said, the artwork is set 25.5 x 33, close to 2.5' with a .125 crop. So, I calmly told her that her sizes are all messed up, that in her original request she was asking for a job 36" x 59". I still don't have the correct artwork.

There should be a Sign Guild Firing Squad for hire.

If it weren't for these customers, we'd be alright. Amiright?

 

[Signarama Jockey]

I hear you and agree that it is a major issue. I just don't think the problem lies solely on teachers or the schools. Kids learn reading early so I would bet you my lunch money that the parents of many of these struggling kids did not read or do any sort of educational things with their developing children prior to them going to school. We all see disconnected distracted parents in the same large numbers as we see kids. So maybe parents should pull their heads out of their phones, find some responsibility and put some effort into their children? Kids are a product of their environment and I believe this is what everyone is seeing but nobody wants to ever point the finger at themselves so they throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, like it's all the teachers fault. There are kids in elementary school that can't even tie their shoes, good luck with them. It's not their fault, it's parents and it does not get better with time.

I don't want to go too hard on teachers. A lot of them are probably highly skilled, well meaning people. Sometimes, when I make this argument I lose some nuance in my bombast, and it would be unfair for me to make this solely about teachers. And you're right, many kids are failed by their parents when it comes to learning out of school - I don't want to overlook that point.

But, if schools can spend this much money, and still fail this many students, is it really worth it? What if parents could take that 14k and instead pay a private school? Wouldn't that be better?

I also agree that teachers need to produce just like everyone else. The issue with that is how?

Perhaps the system itself is flawed. Perhaps, as you point out, students need smaller classes and more personal attention. Public schools are factories, not artisan workshops.

That tells you absolutely nothing, at all. I could spend $500k on a Ferrari but it wouldn't make me a better driver.

It does say that we are pouring a massive amount of money into a hole and getting poor results.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I don't want to go too hard on teachers. A lot of them are probably highly skilled, well meaning people. Sometimes, when I make this argument I lose some nuance in my bombast, and it would be unfair for me to make this solely about teachers. And you're right, many kids are failed by their parents when it comes to learning out of school - I don't want to overlook that point.

But, if schools can spend this much money, and still fail this many students, is it really worth it? What if parents could take that 14k and instead pay a private school? Wouldn't that be better?


Perhaps the system itself is flawed. Perhaps, as you point out, students need smaller classes and more personal attention. Public schools are factories, not artisan workshops.


It does say that we are pouring a massive amount of money into a hole and getting poor results.

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I can agree with most of that. I don't think that giving people tax money for private school in lieu of the school system is a good idea though for a few reasons. One is obvious, it will take money away from an already broke school system which will make it even harder to do one on ones, reduce class sizes etc. Another is that it's not fair to the taxpayers without children. As it is now, everyone regardless of status has to pay into the school system and all other public entities that exist for the betterment of society. It's akin to not having to pay into the police if you own a gun.
A big one for me is the collateral damage. Private schools are a privilege and those who have the means either through family or working hard shouldn't have that diluted. It will lower the perception of private school being prestigious where the kids with higher social skills, more drive or parents that are highly involved end up going.
Lastly, if people are given $14k to use at private school then it's safe to assume that private school tuitions will rise by at least $14k. That's an economics 101 lesson on how inflation works.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Private schools are good because they get to choose the students they accept. $14k isn't that bad per year. Find me a private school around here that costs less than that.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Private schools are good because they get to choose the students they accept. $14k isn't that bad per year. Find me a private school around here that costs less than that.

Your cheap ass will put your kid to work and pocket the cash. I know how you Texans are

 

[MNT_Printhead]

When you pull funding to send the kid's who's family's have the time to shuttle them to it versus putting them on a bus, you are creating an opportunity for even more inequality in education because it defunds the public system. If you have the money to pay for private school, use you dime, not my tax dollars - it is straight up greed and not caring about the betterment of the society.

Edited to ad: if that were to take place, I as someone with no kids would not be voting to hand more of money to taxes for education to handed off to people who don't deserve my money - This would just make the current system lesser funded and even worse.

Save the babies, stop abortion! Fuck those kids if their parents are poor and stuck in under performing underfunded public school sucks, because they afford to do what you want to.

Cognitive dissonance is a pandemic that has been going on since before COVID.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

The schools aren't being frivolous with money, it's just expensive because of all the support staff and the infrastructure needed. I worked for the local school board a long time ago, they were tighter than a gnats ass when it came to spending. Everything would be beyond wore out before it was replaced. All maintenance is in house which is cheaper. Transportation is in house which is cheaper.
I also don't think you'd get 100% back either. I'm not totally sure but I don't believe the federal dollars could be used that way by the states, it'd be a misappropriation of funds. Local and state taxes would probably be it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Around here, if the school wants 50 million to build a new football stadium.. they have to put it on the ballot. The taxpayer decides if we want to raise our taxes for that purpose. Not everything passes. Not sure who's getting all the money... teachers don't make anything.. bus drivers don't, most staff don't... counselors and nurses don't ...

 

[Stacey K]

A lot of it has to do with the people running each school. It's a small few that make decisions for all - like Notareal said.

I only had an issue with 2 teachers. Otherwise, I found all of them to be concerned about my kids education. I think they get the short end of the stick. They don't make the decisons.

We have a cross dressing man as the high school home ec teacher. Kids found some provocative photos online and lots of parents were up in arms. He has turned out to be one of the kids favorite teachers. VERY involved and always posting on the FB page these really neat meals and just very creative things he does in class. The high school BOYS love him, he's an excellent teacher. He is not political in any way and obviously isn't cross dressing or doing anything inappropriate. Can't judge a book by it's cover!