Onyx 10 white print setup

[Chasez]

Hi All,

I'm hoping I have this in the right category. New to printing white and not sure how to do a 3 layer print. What I'm trying to accomplish is to print onto clear material, have an image on the back, a flood white, then the image again. This way you can see the image from both sides once installed and be opaque. This is what I'm running:

win 7 x64
onyx 10.2.5
Illustrator CS6
Epson S50670

I have followed the instructions on creating a new spot colour, naming it the default "Spot1" and then saving and outputting the file. When I just print white (and only white) this works, when I try to do a 3 layer print in Illustrator, all layers are correct, but it just prints the bottom layer/image. What am I missing? Is it with Onyx or should I be checking into how the file is built in Illustrator?

Thanks,

Chaz

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

You need to select a layered profile, then after the job rips and is in the queue, right click and go to Edit -> Printer Settings -> Define Layers.
Then you select CMYK for top and bottom layers and Spot White for the middle layer.

This is how it works for Océ Onyx 10. Hopefully you have something similar so this process works.

 

[Chasez]

You need to select a layered profile, then after the job rips and is in the queue, right click and go to Edit -> Printer Settings -> Define Layers.
Then you select CMYK for top and bottom layers and Spot White for the middle layer.

This is how it works for Océ Onyx 10. Hopefully you have something similar so this process works.

I have tried that but its still only printing the bottom layer(image). I have my Illustrator file setup as:

bottom layer - image
above - white spot colour (new spot swatch - "whiteprint" - changed in onyx media profile from "Spot1")
above - reverse of bottom image
above - CutContour path

In Onyx I have setup a new media profile, set ink config to use CMYKW, process colors to use CMYK for rendering, media options set to transparent, configured spot color (changed to "whiteprint"), created a print mode, reso 720x1440-MD, stochastic, mode options -> enabled multi layer (L1 color, lvl2 8pass)(L2 white, lvl2 8pass page dry 2sec)(L3 color, lvl2 8pass page dry 2sec), platen gap 1.5mm, feed sp default, backfeed sp normal, tenson periodically, uni-directional, head movement printer width, multi-strike 2 times, after header feed default, dryer on, print vert cut line off, pass dry tiem .2 sec, pre heater 35C, platen header 35C, after heater 50C.

When I go into onyx, open file with default profile (haven't gotten around to creating quickset yet - just got printer setup last week). It opens in job editor, select contour cutter (summasign pro series), correct media group/name/print mode (as what I had just created) hit submit then print. It only shows the top layer image in job editor and prints only the color image.

From what i've gotten, because of the 2 print heads it should print the color on the first print head, then white on the second then do a 2nd pass for top image (color)? Now I've stopped the print about 1/3 way through because its only printing the color and no white... am I being impatient and should let it run all the way through? Am I stopped the job to early to tell, should I let it run all the way through (does it print the bottom image fully then go back over and print the flood white, then back over again to print the top image)?

Thanks for all the help, White print is a completely new thing to me and instead of paying out the *** for onyx support I hope the community can help me out as they have in the past!

Chaz

 

[boxerbay]

did you ever figure this out? I need to know how to set this up in onyx too.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

When you're creating the file in Illustrator you need to assign it a spot colour called "Spot 1" (you were missing the space which would cause an issue, but if you've renamed it in ONYX that should be solved) I alway set my white ink spot to 100% magenta and put it on it's own layer called "White Ink Layer" so that there are no mixups.

This is the part that most people miss/forget. In "Attributes" make sure that "Overprint" is turned on.

Once in ONYX you can open the file in PreFlight the white ink information should go purple or green (I've seen both) and be translucent so that you can still see the graphics. If this happens, congratulations you have a working white ink file!

 

[boxerbay]

yes i know how to do the spot color in onyx. but how do we create a three layer job? first layer is mirror to face outward - WHITE - last layer regular inside.

 

[Bly]

As Signmeup said, once you have the spot white in a layered profile let it rip then go to printer settings and select the order you want the white to appear.
For a night/day 3 layer job select cmyk/spot white/cmyk.
Or usually cmyk/flood white/cmyk

 

[boxerbay]

my work flow is create the AI file with 2 layers. name one layer spot1 and check overprint. then in onyx thrive. go to job editor and then go to change profiles>output tab>select spot channel replacement. in the lower half name document spot color name to spot1.

but that is for 2 layers. where do i indicate the third layer in onyx thrive job editor?

on my printer controller I can tell it white middle layer. it prints three layer with white in the middle but it duplicates only the top layer instead of using the bottom layer which the text is in reverse to face out the glass correctly.

 

[boxerbay]

I am doing this for white. but I dont see where to assign the inverted first layer.

http://www.onyxgfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tutorial-Design-with-Specialty-Ink.pdf

 

[Bly]

I'm not sure you can have two different cmyk layers.
I'd print the first cmyk then do another pass on top with white + the 2nd cmyk.

 

[Joe House]

Also, it will most likely take more than white to make the opacity you need. Probably something like: reverse print cmyk > white > gray > white > regular print cmyk. Otherwise the 2 layers of color will show through and confuse the pushers and the pullers.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

Also, it will most likely take more than white to make the opacity you need. Probably something like: reverse print cmyk > white > gray > white > regular print cmyk. Otherwise the 2 layers of color will show through and confuse the pushers and the pullers.

Absolutely agree with Joe House. The CMYK/WHITE/CMYK is a day or night backlit. (so when the lightbox is off the print doesn't look oversaturated) Or for a double sided graphic where a mirror image on the reverse side doesn't matter. (without text, usually photographs) Using the printer to do a double sided, right reading both sides print requires CMYK/WHITE/WHITE/GREY/WHITE/WHITE/CMYK

It is time consuming and very expensive because the ink is more costly than the substrate and after you're done all of that there is still ghosting from the layers of built up ink.

I would just get a .010 blockout synthetic and print to both sides and apply an optically clear or bubble free adhesive. Easier, better and cheaper... the trifecta.

 

[boxerbay]

thanks for the suggestions.

our CET Q1000H has 2 white heads and is very opaque. I send the 2 layer file and set the printer to WHITE MIDDLE LAYER and it prints three layer CMYK _ W _ CMYK on clear fine except the bottom layer is not in reverse. its only reading top layer.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

thanks for the suggestions.

our CET Q1000H has 2 white heads and is very opaque. I send the 2 layer file and set the printer to WHITE MIDDLE LAYER and it prints three layer CMYK _ W _ CMYK on clear fine except the bottom layer is not in reverse. its only reading top layer.

Wow, that's amazing, our white ink is definitly not opaque, especially when you put it on a window with sunlight pushing through it. Well, in this current version of ONYX that is not an option. We just upgraded to ONYX Thrive 12 on Monday and I haven't had time to poke around and see what's new, so I don't know if it's an option on mine.

But you'll have to RIP the same file twice, with one mirrored and send them as sererate jobs.

 

[boxerbay]

doing them separate on rolled clear vinyl will be a challenge. if it was one small piece no problem. but this is an entire storefront with many windows.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

doing them separate on rolled clear vinyl will be a challenge. if it was one small piece no problem. but this is an entire storefront with many windows.

Oh this is a roll to roll printer? I thought it was a flatbed, my apologies. Mirror print on clear with white ink backing, then print on blockout vinyl right reading and mount over top. Two seperate prints that you'll install in shop or on site on top of each other.

So your layers will look like this:

CMYK
BLOCKOUT VINYL

WHITE INK
CMYK
CLEAR VINYL

GLASS

 

[Chasez]

I did figure it out... with my setup SCs50670/onyx 10 once the file has finished ripping right click on the file in the Que and select edit -> printer settings. In there is an option to enable multiple layers. I can print up to 5 layers (mix of cmyk and white). As Corwin said i forgot the enable the overprint and that's why only my first illy layer was printing. In illy, bottom layer is mirrored image (or in my case doesn't have to be mirrored as there is a mirrored selector in printer options) cmyk, next layer is top layer cmyk, then top layer would be your spot1 layer (this layer has the white as overprint).

Hope this helps but it is different for each printer.

Chaz