Question Onyx 12.1 -> Caldera - worth the cost?

[Dukenukem117]

When we bought our printer used, it came with a license of Onyx 12.1. I don't much like the UI, but I've gotten satisfactory prints from it. I'm currently going through youtube videos and their online documentary to figure out how to use the program to its fullest. Their self-help resources are passable, and they want to charge $85 for a phone call.

We do printed window fixtures and we only use 2 materials with two settings. We're not a sign maker or print shop so versatility isn't that important so long as we can find our optimal settings. What matters more is efficiency improvements like reducing scrap, faster speeds, automated printing (from our website), ease-of-training, support, etc.

At a surface glance, the Caldera UI looks a lot better. But I believe its mac/linux only, and we would likely need to use a mac since we need to install adobe suite. And since mac hardware is so expensive, that adds a pretty big cost on top of the program itself. But mistakes are also expensive, and if its much easier to train people on Caldera, then it might be worth looking when we begin to expand.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

All I have ever used is Caldera and really like it. I do believe with the latest version, there is something with Windows, but I have all Macs so never really looked into it. I am used to the interface, so I think its nice. Profiling is pretty straight forward too.

 

[Dukenukem117]

Did you get trained on it by the reseller or are you self-taught? I'm teaching myself Onyx atm and I still don't understand what the point of the layout tool is.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

But I believe its mac/linux only, and we would likely need to use a mac since we need to install adobe suite. And since mac hardware is so expensive, that adds a pretty big cost on top of the program itself. But mistakes are also expensive, and if its much easier to train people on Caldera, then it might be worth looking when we begin to expand.

There is another option with using Linux. Could always VM Windows (couldn't do that (legally) with a Mac OS as it's agains't their EULA). Need to make sure that the hardware you get is spec'ed appropriately for VM'ing. You are limited to Debian Mate, not too terribly heavy of a DE, so it wouldn't be too bad for a VM.

I think price wise, still come out ahead of the game, even with the need of a higher spec'ed computer for VM'ing and a licensed copy of Windows, but it does depend on how you do it.

I'm just throwing it out there, it isn't for everyone, but I wanted you to know that it's at least an option to look into, even if you need to have something that will run Adobe on that rig as well.

 

[Dukenukem117]

There is another option with using Linux. Could always VM Windows (couldn't do that (legally) with a Mac OS as it's agains't their EULA). Need to make sure that the hardware you get is spec'ed appropriately for VM'ing. You are limited to Debian Mate, not too terribly heavy of a DE, so it wouldn't be too bad for a VM.

I think price wise, still come out ahead of the game, even with the need of a higher spec'ed computer for VM'ing and a licensed copy of Windows, but it does depend on how you do it.

I'm just throwing it out there, it isn't for everyone, but I wanted you to know that it's at least an option to look into, even if you need to have something that will run Adobe on that rig as well.

Since Adobe is the more complex program to use, would it be better to flip that and run Linux in VM?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Since Adobe is the more complex program to use, would it be better to flip that and run Linux in VM?

Possible, one thing that I would be worried about is how are your printers going to be connected? Since the RIP is going to be in the VM, how it's connected to the RIP is going to be the something to consider.

It may very well be a non issue at all, I just don't know, so that would be the thing that I would look into for sure. Otherwise, sure, I don't see any reason why you couldn't run the VM setup that way.

 

[ProPDF]

When we bought our printer used, it came with a license of Onyx 12.1. I don't much like the UI, but I've gotten satisfactory prints from it. I'm currently going through youtube videos and their online documentary to figure out how to use the program to its fullest. Their self-help resources are passable, and they want to charge $85 for a phone call.

We do printed window fixtures and we only use 2 materials with two settings. We're not a sign maker or print shop so versatility isn't that important so long as we can find our optimal settings. What matters more is efficiency improvements like reducing scrap, faster speeds, automated printing (from our website), ease-of-training, support, etc.

At a surface glance, the Caldera UI looks a lot better. But I believe its mac/linux only, and we would likely need to use a mac since we need to install adobe suite. And since mac hardware is so expensive, that adds a pretty big cost on top of the program itself. But mistakes are also expensive, and if its much easier to train people on Caldera, then it might be worth looking when we begin to expand.

We used Caldera for a minute years ago right before version 10. I think they have a windows option now. The one thing that drove me crazy was they will upgrade and fee you to death per license per machine plus software upgrade cost. Also we had to turn off updates on our mac because if Apple released a new OS version Caldera wouldn't work at all on it or parts of it would work and we had to wait for a patch. Then if you upgrade a few months before a new release you will eventually not get tech support and they push you to stay isolated in a software version with no support or upgrade your software and each license for all machines. Things may have changed and someone chime in if so please cause I am always up for switching. In the end their version 9 to 10 upgrade wasn't worth it nor was all their other upgrades since then so it was useless to keep with them. This isn't going to be other people's experience especially If you are a two machine shop it might be worth it as it was very stable when firing on all cylinders.

 

[Bly]

Did you get trained on it by the reseller or are you self-taught? I'm teaching myself Onyx atm and I still don't understand what the point of the layout tool is.

I've used Onyx for years and have never used Layout Tool.
You can set the Rip up to run with hot folders or through a web browser so there is little user intervention required.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I think they have a windows option now.

I've never known them to have a Windows option and I'm not seeing one on their website. One may be in the works, but it isn't listed under OS Compatibility yet.

One thing that I would caution about a Windows option is this:

Also we had to turn off updates on our mac because if Apple released a new OS version Caldera wouldn't work at all on it or parts of it would work and we had to wait for a patch.

This is not possible on a Windows machine (without using 3rd party solutions which I'm not a fan of) no matter what version of the OS you have, you can't put off, and depending on the version (and the version that allows for the longest term is the one that most on here can't legally get) that may impact how long you can put off, but you'll be getting an update at some point.

Now, this isn't everybody, but my dad has had an issue with every major release of Win 10, having an issue with 1903 right now that I'm going to have to work on when I'm at their place this weekend. Also, twice, including this time, he had an issue where an older version of software wasn't compatible with the latest version of Windows and Windows remove it on it's own. The last time (Anniversary Update), it gave a message, so I'm going to look to see if it did the same thing. And bare in mind, his software isn't anywhere near the niche use that most on here would have (especially considering the usage of RIP software in this thread, even MS' own branded software, he had issues with updates).

Again, that isn't everyone, but I would be cautious. Not everyone can get away from the Windows platform, or want to, but I would be cautious with how updates are handled with it now, if nothing else.

Part of the reason why I suggest not getting updates and keeping a production rig offline (which isn't going to be possible if the OP is on the latest CC Adobe) really has a lot to do with updates (especially with Win updates given their history, especially lately). The update situation, is a risk no matter what platform, but not being able to control them fully is an issue. Not everyone has that issue, so they are probably thinking that's blown out of proportion, but it is an issue and it doesn't matter the platform, that's always going to be an issue. Some platforms its much less of an issue then others.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Did you get trained on it by the reseller or are you self-taught? I'm teaching myself Onyx atm and I still don't understand what the point of the layout tool is.

Mostly self taught. They do have a lot of YouTube videos out now too.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

We used Caldera for a minute years ago right before version 10. I think they have a windows option now. The one thing that drove me crazy was they will upgrade and fee you to death per license per machine plus software upgrade cost. Also we had to turn off updates on our mac because if Apple released a new OS version Caldera wouldn't work at all on it or parts of it would work and we had to wait for a patch. Then if you upgrade a few months before a new release you will eventually not get tech support and they push you to stay isolated in a software version with no support or upgrade your software and each license for all machines. Things may have changed and someone chime in if so please cause I am always up for switching. In the end their version 9 to 10 upgrade wasn't worth it nor was all their other upgrades since then so it was useless to keep with them. This isn't going to be other people's experience especially If you are a two machine shop it might be worth it as it was very stable when firing on all cylinders.

I got stuck with Caldera 8 on an unsupported cheese grater Mac at my current place of employment, it at least runs much better than it did for me when I had it on linux. The cost to upgrade Caldera from our version was going to be a new license and gave me the opportunity to change us over to Onyx and get a powerful PC to run it.

 

[Andy_warp]

I would say Caldera is easier to operate for a newbie, but Onyx gives you more control. I've used both and prefer onyx, but couldn't get a good profile with my hardware and inkset.