Onyx cut line issue

[CanuckSigns]

I'm hoping someone can help with an issue I'm having. I have a job where I'm printing a few hundred client supplied pdf files, we are printing, laminating then cutting them out on our summa flatbed. I setup a quickset in onyx 12.2 to automatically put a through cut line around the perimeter of the graphic, and it also prints a small label with the file name so the client can see which file is which when they get them.

The issue I'm having is that when I bring the files into goproduce to cut on our summa, some of the cut files are not correct, for example, the first screenshot attached should just be a large rectangle, however as you can see the cut along the top of the graphic has been moved down to almost the middle of the print. and another shows the cut lines of the final print extending beyond the registration marks, even though it does not on the print itself.

It seems to happen much more frequently on files that have to be rotated to fit the material

Does anyone have any ideas on how to rectify this, or know if a newer version of Onyx would fix this?

 

[White Haus]

Man, that's weird. Definitely not ideal when you're hoping to use automation to your advantage.

I seem to remember there was some sort of issue with TrueFit or auto-rotating files in Onyx before?

The fact that there are cutlines outside of the onyx-generated regmarks makes me think the files are getting corrupted or something is messed up with Onyx.

Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear. Is it doing this with all the files?

 

[jfiscus]

Onyx tries to keep on top of bug fixes, so if you're not running the newest version I would suggest upgrading.
Also, some times files just rip wrong, try dropping those same exact files back in and see if they produce the exact same results again.
Lastly, sometimes PDFs have issues, try opening them in Illustrator and resaving as EPS or something else and see if there is a difference; it might be a transparency issue or something else.

 

[White Haus]

Onyx tries to keep on top of bug fixes, so if you're not running the newest version I would suggest upgrading.
Also, some times files just rip wrong, try dropping those same exact files back in and see if they produce the exact same results again.
Lastly, sometimes PDFs have issues, try opening them in Illustrator and resaving as EPS or something else and see if there is a difference; it might be a transparency issue or something else.

Along that train of thought, I guess it could be a few things going wrong, either in Onyx Job Editor, Cut Server, or Go Produce.

If you uncheck "send automatically to cutter" in Cut server so you can preview the cut files before they send to GoProduce - does the initial preview look all messed up? (I can't remember if you can see regmarks in cut server for F1612 files)

That might help determine where/when the glitch or corruption is happening.

 

[CanuckSigns]

So it seems the issue is caused when I tell onyx to print a label with the job, and the job gets rotated to fit, something about these 2 actions in the quickset cause onyx to mess up the cut line placement.

Also if I print gutters with the job, the closing cut cuts on a severe angle.

So don't print labels or gutters and everything is fine.

 

[ikarasu]

It is a bug with Onyx and they've known about it for a long time and haven't fixed it. I haven't tested the newest newest version yet, but I spent a week going back and forth and diagnosing with them and they can reproduce it every time, it's been a few months and they still haven't fixed it.

It also happens if you add a bleed, if Onyx auto rotates it it will cut without considering the bleed.

It is only auto rotate though, you can make copies of your file and manually rotate, then turn auto rotate off and it will be fine.

Very annoying bug because it is 99% of my workflow to add 2-in bleed and then do a cut through.

I haven't tested the newest release, my new printer is arriving on Monday and I will test... Hopefully since they knew about it they fixed it.... But since I've been dealing with it since 6 months ago I'm skeptical!

 

[White Haus]

So it seems the issue is caused when I tell onyx to print a label with the job, and the job gets rotated to fit, something about these 2 actions in the quickset cause onyx to mess up the cut line placement.

Also if I print gutters with the job, the closing cut cuts on a severe angle.

So don't print labels or gutters and everything is fine.

Good to know, thanks.

Was planning to run a similar job where we would add bleed, cutline and label in onyx.

I wonder if I don't have auto-rotate turned on if it will work?

 

[White Haus]

It is a bug with Onyx and they've known about it for a long time and haven't fixed it. I haven't tested the newest newest version yet, but I spent a week going back and forth and diagnosing with them and they can reproduce it every time, it's been a few months and they still haven't fixed it.

It also happens if you add a bleed, if Onyx auto rotates it it will cut without considering the bleed.

It is only auto rotate though, you can make copies of your file and manually rotate, then turn auto rotate off and it will be fine.

Very annoying bug because it is 99% of my workflow to add 2-in bleed and then do a cut through.

I haven't tested the newest release, my new printer is arriving on Monday and I will test... Hopefully since they knew about it they fixed it.... But since I've been dealing with it since 6 months ago I'm skeptical!

That's unfortunate - seems like a fairly major bug. You think they would take it seriously if it has the potential to ruin jobs.

 

[ikarasu]

You'd think. I was using onyx 22 and just saw canucks using 12.. so it's been there awhile. I thought it was related to the new fc9000 graphtec, but I guess it's cutter wide!

For 19 at least, I can confirm if you take auto rotate off it works fine. Most of my jobs are big... So I just have rotate on, then manually rotate what onyx wants to, then turn auto rotate off. I've do e hundreds of rolls that way and there's been no cut issue....

Then of course the one time I forget .. everything is a quarter of an inch off on cuts.


Very interested to see if it's fixed in 22. If not... I'll send another angry ticket in. Even if you guys don't have advantage, you should send in a support email, maybe they'll release a patch for the older versions.

Case 00340051 - here's my case #, which is still open. You can. Refference it if you.dont want to go through all the back and fourth about getting them to replicate it. I only spoke about the graphtec, so they may be interested in hearing it's affecting summa and I'm guessing everything else.

 

[ikarasu]

Alright... so I cant say with 100% confidence since I'm only doing print to file, but it looks like onyx 22 has fixed the issue!

I was setting up the new printer in anticipation of it arriving tomorrow and realized I can print to file, since i cant connect to the IP of the printer anyway - I even threw in a label to replicate your workflow and it seems to be keeping the image centered and like the un rotated ones... so I'd say they finally fixed it. Only took 6 months. It must have been a core issue with onyx if it affected summa and graphtec... so I wouldnt expect them to release a hotfix for 12.2 unfortunately.

Onyx does give a 30 day free trial, and it wont mess up your 12 install - so I suggest downloading it and seeing if it fixes it before shelling out for a new version... I only use graphtec, so I cant tell if it's fixed for the summa as well.


I paid $995 to add 1 year of advantage which gives free updates for the year, (Also in Canada, so it should be the same - I was on 19 though, so it might be more since you're doing it from a "Legacy" one). A steep payment, but honestly the speed improvement of ripping is worth it alone... 12 to 19 was a huge upgrade, 22 is nice... but I dont know if I'd pay 1K for it... well, it fixes my workflow so I would... but the other features are just slight convenience ones.

 

[balstestrat]

It's more expensive for legacy version.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

It's more expensive for legacy version.

Yeah, we own 10.2 and 12.2 and got quoted over AUD$7k to upgrade (1 grand format, 2 wide format, 1 cutter). Don't let yourself get more than 1 version behind or they will bend you over very hard to get back up to date.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Yeah, we own 10.2 and 12.2 and got quoted over AUD$7k to upgrade (1 grand format, 2 wide format, 1 cutter). Don't let yourself get more than 1 version behind or they will bend you over very hard to get back up to date.

Jesus, we only paid $2500 to get 12.2 when we bought rhe printer and that was starting from scratch coming from versaworks.

 

[ikarasu]

I'd call Grimco and ask. Thrive was a 2k purchase for me - it was a switchover special from Flexi. I was doing $50 a month license and saved a ton by "canceling" it ended up being cheaper than upgrading an old license

 

[balstestrat]

I'd call Grimco and ask. Thrive was a 2k purchase for me - it was a switchover special from Flexi. I was doing $50 a month license and saved a ton by "canceling" it ended up being cheaper than upgrading an old license

Did you get it as a deal with your machine? Might be just a dealer special to sell the machine to you because you got it cheap.

I don't know the precise USD prices but the list price is like $5000 for Thrive + Gold. No way in hell Onyx would trade-in flexi for -$3000.

 

[ikarasu]

No deal for my printer, I bought it a year after I bought my printer because I couldn't stand using Flexi.

If I recall correctly there was a extra trading bonus at the time it was a limited deal, I believe it only gave like $500 off in addition to the trade. My invoice doesn't list any of that though, so my memory could be a bit off.

It is for thrive 221, so if you need more than two printers it would have costed more, and this is also Canadian dollars! So take 20% off our Monopoly money to get the USD cost

(edit) it was 4 years ago, so I'm sure price has gone up, but can't be by that much.
I remember why I remember it so clearly now... This was exactly 1 year after I bought my latex 110. I paid for flexi for a year for the color management since the included version didn't come with it... Hated it so much. At this point it was just a home printer for fun / playing with latex since my work only had a solvent... But I hated Flexi so much and had to talk the wife into letting me spend 2k because I was so annoyed... It was my kick in the pants to sell online and make the money back. At that point I didn't really spend much with Grimco, so there was def no special treatment from them. Now I'm on printer #4 in 4 years... So they better give me a discount if I need one!

 

[Mike Perth]

Alright... so I cant say with 100% confidence since I'm only doing print to file, but it looks like onyx 22 has fixed the issue!

I was setting up the new printer in anticipation of it arriving tomorrow and realized I can print to file, since i cant connect to the IP of the printer anyway - I even threw in a label to replicate your workflow and it seems to be keeping the image centered and like the un rotated ones... so I'd say they finally fixed it. Only took 6 months. It must have been a core issue with onyx if it affected summa and graphtec... so I wouldnt expect them to release a hotfix for 12.2 unfortunately.

Onyx does give a 30 day free trial, and it wont mess up your 12 install - so I suggest downloading it and seeing if it fixes it before shelling out for a new version... I only use graphtec, so I cant tell if it's fixed for the summa as well.


I paid $995 to add 1 year of advantage which gives free updates for the year, (Also in Canada, so it should be the same - I was on 19 though, so it might be more since you're doing it from a "Legacy" one). A steep payment, but honestly the speed improvement of ripping is worth it alone... 12 to 19 was a huge upgrade, 22 is nice... but I dont know if I'd pay 1K for it... well, it fixes my workflow so I would... but the other features are just slight convenience ones.

Hi Ikarasu, did 22 fix the cut issue? We’ve had the same issue with 21 and our 1612, my work around on wallpapers is adding extra width to the print file and deselecting the last tile to print.