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Onyx ICC Profile creation question

Discussion in 'RIP Software & Color Management' started by XFPS, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. XFPS

    XFPS New Member

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    Aug 26, 2019
    Lincoln Park, NJ
    We have an Canon ipf8400 + Onyx 18 Thrive + XRite i1 Publish Pro 2 kit.

    We have successfully created profiles and custom icc profiles in Onyx. Doing RGB and Contone Profiles.

    Images look great using contone mode. Called up i1 and they gave us a video on creating ICC profiles in Onyx. CYMKRGB is the option we are selecting. We are making the ICC profiles using only Onyx. They produce very nicely but the problem is I can't see these icc profiles in Adobe Photoshop. Its like their is no display profile with them. Calling Onyx they told be that it is impossible to do with their software. Called again and they stated you have to use CYMKRGB.

    Even that mode I can't see the ICC profile in Adobe Photoshop. The Goal is to let customers view how their art is going to look like before sending. (Of course they need a color calibrated monitor)

    Can someone please point me to the correct way to accomplish this?

    Thanks
     
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  2. Andy_warp

    Andy_warp Member

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    Jan 28, 2013
    Seattle, WA
    Your output looks great?

    You'd be better off hard proofing...soft proofing, which is what you are asking about, can be quite the can of worms. In my opinion it's never going to "help" sell your prints.
    CMYK on an rgb monitor looks yucky just due to the much, much smaller color gamut. Then you will run into issues with laminate or varnish finishes...how do you show that?

    The goal for us when we profiled, was to move to ALL color by numbers and forget about monitor color.

    It looks like your machine is set up as 12 color, so cmykrgb is not the correct inkset to profile to.

    Edit: Reread that they told you to use that color set. I could see investing the time into soft proofing for huge runs overseas...my advice, just concentrate on the best output your machine can do.
     
  3. XFPS

    XFPS New Member

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    Aug 26, 2019
    Lincoln Park, NJ
    Andy,

    Thanks for the response. That is correct our output is coming out great meaning. We have it dialed in after much wasted material. They told us to use CMYKRGB but I wouldn't be shocked if that was wrong.

    When you say Hard proofing do you mean printing out 1 sample print? (Of the customers Art) Trying to avoid that but if that is the common practice are people getting charged for that sample? Currently we produced a sample book directly from our printer for clients is that good enough and refuse the sample print? or doing both is the correct way.

    I guess the average user will be happy with the print without an sample as long as we have the printer dialed in.

    Thanks
     
  4. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    Dec 11, 2017
    So Cal
    Your new output profiles are considered to be "multichannel" as far as Photoshop is concerned. To soft proof those types in Photoshop, use Convert to Profile > Advanced where you will find the multichannel option. Also find the Preview option in the same pane.

    You're on the right track to provide your customers with soft proofing, however another option is to create simple RGB and CMYK profiles where they can use the more typical soft proof method. RGB and CMYK profiles will still utilize all the color gamut of your printer if done to their full potential.
     
  5. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    Australia
    Are you exporting the ICC out of the media profile Onyx creates and adding it into C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color ?
    I don't believe Onyx does this by default so it could be why you aren't seeing it in Photoshop.

    To be honest, you're better off creating the media profile in Onyx, then using i1Profiler to make the ICC and importing it back in. We get a noticeable gamut increase using it compared to Onyx.
    No need to run linearization as the printer does this internally. Just select RGB device and follow the prompts for a great looking profile.
     
  6. Andy_warp

    Andy_warp Member

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    Jan 28, 2013
    Seattle, WA
    We charge $50, but many of our orders are in the thousands due to the massive square footage of grand format printing (120"). Do you have many "regular" customers? I found once you go through this proofing process a couple of times you can establish a trust with your client. We typically only produce a print proof if the art is iffy, or if the customer requests them. For grand format printing the issue is ALWAYS...resolution. We are in a bit of a different niche for how files need to get to us. In my opinion, the best way to proof resolution is output. Proofing color on a monitor can be problematic for obvious reasons...(is it calibrated...yadda yadda yadda)

    Until they build a printer that can print square pixels instead of dots, hard proof is best.

    For us it is important to work the ACTUAL production art. Then we can control how images are handled and how layouts are prepped for production.
    I never guarantee color if I'm sent a "proof" file from a customer that just has components from a layout. The reason being we have very specific prepress procedures that can be shot tohell if the customer build their art differently from the "proof" file they created. It just covers our arses.

    We basically work the whole project before printing the proof, so no surprises can pop up after. When the customer approves it, we can hit print within minutes. After building a nice profile and print condition, my proofs get turned down maybe 1 in 30...and that is usually due to my ink gamut...or their file construction.

    For our proofs we usually include a 10% of the whole layout...and "problem" sections at 100% size.

    It is not out of the norm for us to create 30' tall by 100' walls. Relying on what someone saw on their monitor as cool gray 8c can look much different as 3000 square feet of gray backdrop in a show hall with uncontrolled lighting. For our type of printing, softproofing is impractical.

    The tech may be better currently than when I toyed around with the "convert to profle" I knew quite a bit less then, but my "proof" view was like a washed out newspaper compared to the standard rgb or cmyk working spaces. My opinion is that it scares people. The fact of the matter is, your prints will never look as punchy as light emitted from a monitor, and most people don't understand the basic physics of that phenomenon.

    As stated, I've little experience in pulling this off.
    I like colorcrest's input on this, but for my specific production format soft proofing would cause more trouble than good.

    I sometimes need to educate my clients about reality.
    Dye sub printing has a fairly small color gamut.
    A monitor can display 256 million colors (new ones even better)...my cmyk printer can produce like several thousand with a much lower contrast ratio. Physics!
     
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