Onyx Rip and color Interpretation

[Keith_F]

Alright, I'm new to the forums and this is my first post.

So taking settings into account, Same profiles, Files built with same color palate in Illustrator, Same material, Saved as .eps ...

So we have a fleet account and we are 2 vehicles deep into the fleet. They are two different models so I can't just use the same files (otherwise I would not have this Issue) there is a background orange we are trying to hit, in illustrator, its Breakdown is 0,80,95,0

the first time onyx ripped this orange breakdown it came out as .8, 72.5, 98.8, 0 and the customer loved it so it became or baseline.

one month later, the same orange ripped as .8, 86.3, 94.1, .4

Also it wasn't just the orange that changed, there were global changes in color based off of the same exact illustrator color breakdowns. Blues and oranges and yellows and gradients as well.

I can change all of the solid spot colors back to the original color breakdowns from a month ago but I cant do anything about the gradients, transparencies and shadows. I showed the customer a proof printed on the material and laminated and he saw the differences right away (He's extra particular). Now I have to figure out how to force Onyx to rip this the exact same way it a month ago.


Has anyone else had this happen? Does anyone know why this happens or how how to make onyx do the exact same thing every time?


Any Help is appreciated,

Thanks.

-Keith

 

[KellyP12]

Welcome! Sounds like you've fixed the flat color replacements, but to make it easier on you, you could always use a Named Color Replacement. If that orange, as it is coming onto the RIP, is a Pantone, let's say, you can use the Named Color Replacement chart to make Onyx print that named color as your 0.8/72.5/98.8/0 build every time. Then it's a breeze, you just check 'Use Spot Color Replacement table' on in your hotfolder settings, and it should replace it that way all the time once you've set it up to do so. See here. Not sure if it's completely up to date but the idea is the same as it has been since at least Onyx 10.

As for the overall global color shifts, they could be due to lots of different print conditions--changing humidity in the area where your printers are; the life of your printheads; out of warranty inks--etc. Are you regularly doing a linearization out of Onyx, and printing some kind of test wedge or swatch to check against in a consistent interval? Then you can check back day-to-day/week-to-week and compare the overall character of your test print to see how fast (or if) things are drifting.

 

[Keith_F]

Thanks yes, the named colors and color replacement are very familiar to me but the color shift takes place in the rip itself so Onyx will literally interpret the same colors differently at different points in time.Its a global color shift in Onyx and this is all pre-print.

And from a programming side of things, this shouldn't happen. Onyx as a program shouldn't be changing the way it does anything. I am the only one here who uses Onyx at the shop here and I didn't change any settings and there were no updates of any kind. So I'm still trying to figure out what is going on.

 

[dypinc]

Thanks yes, the named colors and color replacement are very familiar to me but the color shift takes place in the rip itself so Onyx will literally interpret the same colors differently at different points in time.Its a global color shift in Onyx and this is all pre-print.

And from a programming side of things, this shouldn't happen. Onyx as a program shouldn't be changing the way it does anything. I am the only one here who uses Onyx at the shop here and I didn't change any settings and there were no updates of any kind. So I'm still trying to figure out what is going on.

New Linearization possibly?

 

[Keith_F]

I'm unfamiliar with the term linearization, Can you clarify?

Thanks

 

[jfiscus]

Did you create both of the files from scratch, yourself? Or was the first one created by someone else originally and then you edited it?

 

[Keith_F]

Did you create both of the files from scratch, yourself? Or was the first one created by someone else originally and then you edited it?

The first file was created by me from scratch, to create the second file I used elements from the first file. So yes, I created both files.

 

[dypinc]

I'm unfamiliar with the term linearization, Can you clarify?

Thanks

Maybe I should have said, re-linearization/re-calibration.

 

[Keith_F]

Maybe I should have said, re-linearization/re-calibration.

Oh gotcha, I check it every Monday or daily if I'm running the same job multiple days in a row. When it is off I re-calibrate.

Thanks

 

[Andy_warp]

This may be a dumb question...but are you sure one layout isn't cmyk and one rgb in Illustrator?
Gradients and transparency will render completely different.

Your designated spots would come out the same, but builds would render differently.

Also... you cannot embed profiles in an Illustrator .eps
Did you send one as a pdf?

 

[ejmoan]

I am very much a novice (3 years) and this may not help but have ran into dramatic color differences printing in RGB vs CMYK in illustrator. If you open a photo or current RGB file, illustrator will change the color mode (to RGB) to that so you need to pay attention to this that it is not flipping this on you. Make sure your color mode is always CMYK. I run illustrator CS6, Onyx 10 along with an HP Latex 310 Printer and never really have trouble with matching colors from prior prints for fleet vehicles if I pay attention to this. A big tip is if you are printing in RGB your colors (mostly grays) will come our blue-ish green. Your blacks will be brown and I think your oranges would be less bright. I also always use % of black for my grays versus spot colors. These are much more stable when they print.

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Something else to double check. Make sure your color spaces are the same in Your design programs and rip

For both CMYK and RGB


Did you bring in any supplied files the first time? Double check your setting from file to file.

 

[ColorCrest]

Alright, I'm new to the forums and this is my first post.

Has anyone else had this happen? Does anyone know why this happens or how how to make onyx do the exact same thing every time?

-Keith

If you are absolutely sure your work flow, files, and profiles were the same in both instances…



… the answer is easy. The machine is not calibrated as before.



Onyx is actually performing its job properly by changing your input cmyk values to its output values by way of its ICC output profile. However, what has changed is your attempt at a new calibration since your prior print session a month ago. You new calibration is not what you believe it to be and now Onyx is getting new and different input values but still using it’s original ICC output profile and therefore, is invalid. Your new calibration is so different than before, you now need to create a new ICC output profile to correct the difference in color.



A common question for any print person is; “How do you know the machine is calibrated.” By making prints from all your machines with ICC output profiles turned off as a start. Onyx has a button to facilitate that exercise when you calibrate and gives you the opportunity to print the Onyx control image(s) or your own control image file. Whatever those prints look like, that’s your calibration. If they don’t look so good, the Onyx ICC output profile has that much more work to do to correct everything it processes.