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Onyx transparency issues

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CanuckSigns

Active Member
We just recently switched from a Roland running versaworks to a new Epson S80600 running onyx 12 and are having an issue with transparencies. We created a file that is all spot colours, with a transparent vector shape over top, when we bring it into onyx the transparency disappears in the preview, if we print it, it prints extremely faint white lines outlining the transparent object.

Called onyx and they had me run a test profile, which printed the transparency fine, but the rest of the colours were way off, they said I need to create custom profiles for all my media and it's due to the fact that the epson is a contone printer (I have no idea what this all means, i'm new to onyx)

Has anyone else come across this issue?
 
papabud

papabud

Lone Wolf
onyx has issues with illustrator transparencies. if you can flatten it. it might help. saving it in a tiff or pdf might help also.
 
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SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Would you be able to share the file?

We just did the exact same move from a VS-540 w.Versaworks to S80600 w.Onyx and haven't had any issues with transparencies yet.
Curious to see how the file is set up.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
SignMeUpGraphics said:
Would you be able to share the file?

We just did the exact same move from a VS-540 w.Versaworks to S80600 w.Onyx and haven't had any issues with transparencies yet.
Curious to see how the file is set up.
Click to expand...
The file is too big to post, but I could email it to you if you want to PM me your email.
 
A

Andy_warp

New Member
Are you using a blending mode? We've found really multiply and normal are about the only blending modes that will render.

We NEVER put transparent spot colors over each other. We usually have to pick the most critical one and the rest goes to process.

You'll want to watch out for "overprint" as well. We get files that have knocked out white set to overprint, and it will not render.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
Thanks guys, we have figured out how to make it work for files we create ourselves, but we do print files for other shops, marketing companies etc, and I can see it being an issue when it comes to that, either missing transparencies completely, or having to kick back the files for them to change when they shouldn't need to.

Coming from versaworks, which had its issues, but 95% of the time it worked fine, am I being unreasonable to expect a $3000 piece of software to work better than a free version that came bundled with my printer?
 
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unmateria

New Member
CanuckSigns said:
Thanks guys, we have figured out how to make it work for files we create ourselves, but we do print files for other shops, marketing companies etc, and I can see it being an issue when it comes to that, either missing transparencies completely, or having to kick back the files for them to change when they shouldn't need to.

Coming from versaworks, which had its issues, but 95% of the time it worked fine, am I being unreasonable to expect a $3000 piece of software to work better than a free version that came bundled with my printer?
Click to expand...
PostScript and transparencies (specially rotated bitmaps) is a common issue in LOTS of rips. We always flatten all files to tiff, and lzw compression so we can really preview all with colour profiles. Best PDF rasterizer we have found to the date is Photoshop since its really faster than any other rip software, and you can check for problems with colour profiles really good and fast.

Enviado desde mi Nexus 6 mediante Tapatalk
 
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Andy_warp

New Member
"If you don't give a shit...just flatten and rasterize!"

I love seeing that one on here. Take some damn pride in being a printer...sometimes things are difficult.

There are many limitations of design software that RIPS simply won't render well.
Sounds like a digital workflow issue to me.

Sometimes we have to remap and rebuild elements from the ground up...
 
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Andy_warp

New Member
"Print-ready" hahahaha! You've got jokes!

The problem the OP is having is solvable but it's done in building the right food for your specific rip.

The problem with Photoshop is brand colors. I do work for quite a few largish companies in Seattle, here.
Their color is the same EVERY time. Even when it is not provided correctly.

I just spent two shifts making two prints:
an 82' x 24' and a 65' x 24'

It is worth it for us to build from the ground up. We run across this transparency problem on most of our projects.
Send us the native *whatever* files…and all assets.
And fonts to outlines…we're not printing catalogs...

We reject "print ready" pdfs as production art. The reason being…indesign
It makes problems like the one described…and if a vector object has an effect it will rasterize it and make tiles.
This is an issue if you are managing a companies brand color through the rip…with device builds.
Not profiles…or exports…or any other BS that is a moving target.

This type of postscript error happens sometimes in Illustrator. Namely, when you try to use effects on spot colors over other spot colors.

We also had a client send us a 300 kb .ai file. It had a 70' drop shadow! It clipped at the area where Illustrator hit it's 2 gig memory limit.
In this instance we DID have to rasterize in PS.

I blame indesign, and inexperience. I've loaded Pagemaker links off of floppies…(and frankly, would take Ragemaker over indesign any day of the week)

We run Caldera…but I miss Onyx!!!
These type of problems happen with each RIP, which is why I said "it sounds like a digital workflow issue."
 
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ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
One of the primary goals of any modern prepress department and print shop has been to accept to all the work they can in order to satisfy their customers so the results would be win-win for both parties. This means to accept ANY file and make it work with the proper quality, with the proper quantity, at the promised delivery time, at the quoted price.

Another goal has always been to produce the same color from any of the various file formats such as TIFF, JPG, PSD, EPS, PDF, PS, native application files, etc. A color managed shop makes this happen.

EPS is considered a zombie format and hasn’t been upgraded this millennium. EPS has never supported ICC color management nor transparency. When saving an EPS from Illustrator, a complete Ai file is always embedded and the EPS portion is version 3 as there has been no higher version.

Adobe InDesign was Pagemaker. InDesign 1.0 used to open with a Pagemaker splash screen on occasion.

PDF files should be a long-time friend to your RIP by now.

PS files too.
 
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Andy_warp

New Member
ColorCrest said:
One of the primary goals of any modern prepress department and print shop has been to accept to all the work they can in order to satisfy their customers so the results would be win-win for both parties. This means to accept ANY file and make it work with the proper quality, with the proper quantity, at the promised delivery time, at the quoted price.

Another goal has always been to produce the same color from any of the various file formats such as TIFF, JPG, PSD, EPS, PDF, PS, native application files, etc. A color managed shop makes this happen.

EPS is considered a zombie format and hasn’t been upgraded this millennium. EPS has never supported ICC color management nor transparency. When saving an EPS from Illustrator, a complete Ai file is always embedded and the EPS portion is version 3 as there has been no higher version.

Adobe InDesign was Pagemaker. InDesign 1.0 used to open with a Pagemaker splash screen on occasion.

PDF files should be a long-time friend to your RIP by now.

PS files too.
Click to expand...
EPS files? Who said anything about eps files???


ColorCrest said:
A color managed shop makes this happen.
Click to expand...
I have built a managed system.
How can color be the same from a compressed file format to an uncompressed?
It won't. Especially in a vector created element with transparency that is rasterized and compressed to hell and back.

I never said we did not utilize a pdf workflow...we just don't take every brokedown pdf sent our way. You seem pretty well on it, so I'll assume we all know that not all pdfs are created equal.

Your logic is sound...but when I am charging ten grand for two prints...shouldn't I be able to stipulate what works best?
If I'm on the hook to meet a client's color matching expectations, shouldn't I dictate the path to get there?

If a designer has never designed for grand format dye sublimation, why would I suggest a 4 color press type workflow?

These are BIG signs...not catalogs.
 
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