Out of memory

[paxas]

Having an "out of memory" message pop up for some reason when using large files in Flexi 10.2, surprising when there is 8 gb of ram and plenty of disk space for the temp files to write too, & space for any windows swap files Happens when copying new stuff into or out of a file. (file size when uncompressed is around 850mb-contains lots of photos and vector fills ) All the windows virtual memory setting are set to auto. no other apps running. Task manager says flexi itself is using about 1.6GB mem, with total memory use of around 3.8gb. I'm presuming that this is not just a windows issue.
Any one have the same problem?

Specs: intel core 2 i7, 2x 240GB drive and 60 GB SSD , 8 GB ram flexi 10.2, win7 64 bit

 

[choucove]

I'm not sure exactly about it happening in Flexi, but I have seen some programs that still have issue with Virtual Memory when set to auto, even if there should be plenty of space set in that virtual memory. This issue can also occur if the system detects that the temp folder location for Flexi could be full.

Now, in this case, the temp folder for Flexi is located within the C:\Program Files (x86)\SAi\ folder so if you have your temp file set to this default location and have Flexi installed on your primary drive (the 60GB SSD) you may very well be getting this error because your SSD is actually full. Even if you open up My Computer and see space free on your drive, that may be deceiving as there are often times temp files that are not displayed in that total drive capacity usage.

Beyond that, with any SSD you start experiencing greatly decreased speeds and possibly even corruption errors and, as you mentioned above, out of memory errors if you fill up your SSD beyond 80% capacity. For any SSD it's pretty much recommended for long term longevity, stability, and performance that you keep at least 20% of your capacity free at all time so that your system has plenty of space to move data. SSDs must move data in large blocks at a time to erase data, as well as performing TRIM or Garbage Collection actions to clean up space on your SSD.

Now, Windows 7 is about 25GB itself, plus updates, fonts, Flexi, and any other programs you have on your drive, and I imagine that your 60 GB SSD has got to be full hence why you are getting this error. Even with a single 120GB Vertex 3 drive in my system I'm already about 2/3rds full just with Windows 7, Microsoft Office, and a couple other random selection of programs like Firefox, Nero, and Quickbooks.

 

[paxas]

I agree entirely with what you have said ( and thanks for your comprehensive reply,much appreciated) but one thing I did try was to change the "temp" folder in Flexi preferences to another HDD drive( 40 GB free space) , and surprisingly I had the same issue with the memory,{ Oh dear this is frustrating}

 

[choucove]

Hmmm, well one thing you could try to do to eliminate it being a Virtual Memory issue is to go in and set it to manual, and allocate a minimum and maximum that's quite a bit more than what it has set as its default "auto" value, perhaps double the value. Then attempt it again after a restart and see what you get then.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

It could be a number of things.

How full is your C:/ drive (I am assuming this is your SSD)?

60GB isn't all that much room, but could be manageable with vigilant management. Personally, I would have a hard time with a 60GB drive. It would constantly be full.

What brand/model of SSD are you dealing with? Do you have some sort of TRIM function enabled? Is the SSD being maintained?

If virtual memory settings are left at default and the OS is on a nearly full SSD, you could very well be seeing a problem. The page file could be running out of room. Have you tried manually moving the page file to a different drive with ample space?

It looks like Brett beat me to it ^

 

[jtrainor56]

You might also want to save the page file to another drive and not the ssd drive.

 

[paxas]

the ssd is a vertex2 with 9gb free
Only used for win7 & a few apps
All else is on the hdds

the vertex maintenance app says it is
In 100% state

 

[LittleSnakey]

I don't think the problem is your computer, I experience the same thing with large files (high res jpg) in flexi sometimes it won't save them if they are too big. When This happens I try to break the job up into multiple files so its not so big. Sometimes when printing it will rip, then print a blank sheet also on big files (high res jpg) I use versaworks to print when this happens and works fine.

When I watch the task manager it never uses all the memory available.
I also have 8gb, and 2 high speed hard drives in raid 0 array.

Right now I think the software is a little behind the hardware.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

the ssd is a vertex2 with 9gb free
Only used for win7 & a few apps
All else is on the hdds

the vertex maintenance app says it is
In 100% state

It may be an issue with the software, but it still might be a good idea to move your page file.

 

[paxas]

Yes maybe its the 32 bit app limitation, anyway the courier has just delivered a new 120gb vertex 3 drive, so will, see if that helps sort the, will also try "Choucoves" suggestion with virtual memory ,thanks guys

 

[GAC05]

"Right now I think the software is a little behind the hardware. "

I think this is correct.
Pretty sure Flexi is still 32bit so it is going to top out around 3gigs no matter how much ram, physical or virtual you have available.

I'm running Flexi 8 on win7 64bit system and some large complex ai files will crash the RIP unless I go back and flatten everything to single layer bitmap.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Custom_Grafx]

"Right now I think the software is a little behind the hardware. "

I think this is correct.
Pretty sure Flexi is still 32bit so it is going to top out around 3gigs no matter how much ram, physical or virtual you have available.

I'm running Flexi 8 on win7 64bit system and some large complex ai files will crash the RIP unless I go back and flatten everything to single layer bitmap.

wayne k
guam usa

This really sux. And I think Illustrator and Corel still don't have 64bit? Only Photoshop?

Even though Versaworks claims to be resource hungry, I don't really see it going beyond 1-1.5gb in mem usage... so I'm fine with that... but Ai could really use it.

 

[paxas]

This really sux. And I think Illustrator and Corel still don't have 64bit? Only Photoshop?

Even though Versaworks claims to be resource hungry, I don't really see it going beyond 1-1.5gb in mem usage... so I'm fine with that... but Ai could really use it.

Yes I use versaworks also, and no problems with file size at all.

Yes files in question - that are giving me the thmbs down are Menu layouts , similar to McDonalds /subway with heaps of high res masked photos with nice color fills behind all scaled at full size, so I guess they are prone to push the limits, but I don't like the idea of these size restrictions. Will post any changes with the new drive and page file changes.

 

[choucove]

Now this is just an observation I seem to have noticed, and not solid fact, but it seems that there are particular instances when doing tasks in Flexi (and other design software for that matter) that the required temporary space fluctuates greatly. This has come from watching the amount of space used on a RAMDisk set up specifically as the temp drive for Flexi for the last week or so while the designers are working on some different jobs.

First I'll explain my observations.

While working in Flexi on a decent size project, we monitor the amount of used space within the RAMDisk just using Windows Explorer to view and refresh regularly to see changes while tasks are being done. Now, while normally just working around with a file, such as adding some text or moving around some shapes in the work layout, the space used is very minimal for the project, we'll say like 10% of a 6GB RAMDisk. As you continue doing work on the file the space will slowly increase (though only by about 2 to 5 percent) the longer you are working on the project. I'm assuming this is because of saving past states of the file (for the Undo usage) by using Windows Shadow Copy.

However, when you perform certain other tasks the amount of used space makes a large increase for a short amount of time. I've noticed this happen when exporting the job to Production Manager to be cut, or even when sending it to be print just as a preview of the project on a standard size sheet of paper on a desktop printer. There are other times too, generally like when an effect would be applied to the work area or certain objects in the work area. But during this short time while it's performing some of these specific tasks, the amount of used space in the RAMDisk can jump up to 20 or 30% usage which is about two to three times more than what it was normally.

Again, while I'm not sure this is exactly all fact or precise, I believe what is happening (at least for printing/plotting from what I have seen) is that the temp files are initially compressed or only have a portion of the job file actually stored at the temporary folder location (the rest could be actually loaded into operating RAM) but when you print the program must either decompress the data or copy what is in operating RAM onto the temp folder completely before progressing.

What this all means is that when performing certain tasks - again, things I've seen are like printing and saving a file - the temp folder requires a much greater amount of space at least for a short time while it completes those tasks on those temporary files. And it's a lot more space than I thought.

When we sent a project to print on a regular letter sized page for a preview, the temporary folder went from consuming about 200MB to consuming well over 900MB while the job was spooling, and then back down to 200MB after the job had been sent to the printer. Now this wasn't a big file at all, so there was quite a lot of space required for that short time while it printed. So it's more understandable to believe an out of memory error could occur even if your system would normally have enough free space to work on the file in the temp folder.

 

[paxas]

Choucove, that is amazing research, thanks for that, I will now attempt to change the page file allowance manually for all my drives, now 4 of them to many Gb each, and then test it to the max, hopefully it will do the trick.

 

[paxas]

The Results are out: Adding the new ssd for the flexi Temp files and setting the page file on each drive to 4GB min/max (12GB for the flexi SSD page file) has help to more or less solve the problem. It only crashed once with trying to copy the contents of the whole file ie. selected all objects on the page -bringing up the "failed -out of memory " message after almost completing the exercise. I did try the page files set (manually) even higher but it didn't make any difference,
So I guess thats about the best I can do, apart from trying to reduce the size of the files in question
and hope that SAi makes a 64bit version one day.
ps. Has anyone tried making up complex Menu signs in Photoshop or illustator (recent versions) ? Im wondering if that would work better.
No I dont have those apps, but I do have Coreldraw X4 which I don't particularly like using for Sign making.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

Yes, PS and AI are good for this. PS is king when it comes to handling larger files in my experience. Especially since it's 64 bit.

You can create your vector elements in AI, drop them into PS, and do your image editing in PS with it all.

The textbook way to use adobe though, I think, is to create your raster in PS, vector in AI, then assemble in InDesign. I have worked with this workflow on some occasions, and I gotta say, since it's working with linked files and you can control the display quality and turn the mode right down to minimise resource usage, working with big files, suddenly becomes real fast and easy.

In Design is also very powerful for text editing, so could be your answer in any case I reckon.

You might have a bunch of jpgs for the backgrounds, then want to tile them, then want to create your text on top of all that... Indesign would make light work of it.

Working on 4 huge tiles in AI on one artboard, versus just working on one at a time, then dropping them into indesign and working on all 4 over there, is way way faster in my experience...

 

[paxas]

Good advice , think upon this I will, no maybe there is a download trial available.
Thanks Custom graft!