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Outbid by competition - fight or flight?

Stacey K

Stacey K

I like making signs
I got an email from the signshop down the road that was sold to a new owner. They emailed me a file for boat decals and asked me how much to print. I replied back, "I'm confused why you are asking me for this, I know you have a new printer in the shop." - She replied back that the printer was being repaired the following day and she needed a price to tell her customer and if they agreed she would go ahead with the order. She also told me to caluclate it on "vinyl that doesn't need to last forever" because the customer changes the decals every year. I never replied back with a price as I suspected she was simply fishing for a price and the correct material.

And if not then...
If your printer breaks you charge the customer what YOU would charge and sub it out at WHATEVER IT COSTS to get the job done if they can't wait. It's not the customers fault your printer isn't working.
 
Boudica

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
Stacey K said:
I got an email from the signshop down the road that was sold to a new owner. They emailed me a file for boat decals and asked me how much to print. I replied back, "I'm confused why you are asking me for this, I know you have a new printer in the shop." - She replied back that the printer was being repaired the following day and she needed a price to tell her customer and if they agreed she would go ahead with the order. She also told me to caluclate it on "vinyl that doesn't need to last forever" because the customer changes the decals every year. I never replied back with a price as I suspected she was simply fishing for a price and the correct material.

And if not then...
If your printer breaks you charge the customer what YOU would charge and sub it out at WHATEVER IT COSTS to get the job done if they can't wait. It's not the customers fault your printer isn't working.
Click to expand...
We have a customer-turned-competitor that was doing that to us. My boss was sure they kept asking for quotes so they would know what to charge.
side note, One day the owner came in to pick something up and tried to poach me - said he saw my profile on Linked In and Indeed, he was hiring and wanted to know if I would be interested, then begged me not to tell my boss. Of course I told my boss, and he fired him.
 
Scotchbrite

Scotchbrite

No comment
Stacey K said:
I got an email from the signshop down the road that was sold to a new owner. They emailed me a file for boat decals and asked me how much to print. I replied back, "I'm confused why you are asking me for this, I know you have a new printer in the shop." - She replied back that the printer was being repaired the following day and she needed a price to tell her customer and if they agreed she would go ahead with the order. She also told me to caluclate it on "vinyl that doesn't need to last forever" because the customer changes the decals every year. I never replied back with a price as I suspected she was simply fishing for a price and the correct material.

And if not then...
If your printer breaks you charge the customer what YOU would charge and sub it out at WHATEVER IT COSTS to get the job done if they can't wait. It's not the customers fault your printer isn't working.
Click to expand...
I got suckered like that years ago by one of the franchise shops when they first came into town, although it was lit letters in my case. I didn't figure they were going to do those types of jobs but a couple months later I found out they were bidding some of the same jobs. I realized then, they were probably checking my prices on a couple jobs to get a feel where they needed to be.

I get the last laugh because their national accounts use us for local installs rather than the local franchise. I've heard it doesn't sit well.
 
Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
I have not bid on anything in 10 years. Give them a price and leave it. You can go to two or three grocery stores looking for a better price on eggs. Is it worth the time and gas to do it? Do you want free range, organic then pay a higher price.
 
JBurton

JBurton

Signtologist
Stacey K said:
I got an email from the signshop down the road that was sold to a new owner. They emailed me a file for boat decals and asked me how much to print. I replied back, "I'm confused why you are asking me for this, I know you have a new printer in the shop."
Click to expand...
I just got this sent over to print, mount and install. This seemed like a good spot to drop it. Here's the bottom half of their sign:
1680215089360.png

At least they actually followed through and paid a deposit...
 
gnubler

gnubler

Active Member
I returned to the scene of this crime after hours, wanting to get a closer look. It gets even better! They went through the expense and time to have metal letters cut and individually welded onto what looks like a sheet of ACM, then did a sloppy job of painting everything black, then doing an even sloppier job of painting the letters a metallic copper. I saw some drips of the copper paint on the black backer. This is a 2-faced sign and the layout and position of the letters is different on each side...wish I could post the entire thing for you. Check out the attached snippets, one one side a capital S is upside down and the lowercase P baseline is all wrong. Pretty sure this business is a boyfriend/girlfriend ownership situation and I'm guessing there was massive fighting going on during the build of this sign, an angry rush to just get it installed and be done with it, and now more fighting as they have to look at it every day.

Any opinions on welding vs using threaded studs? Seems like welding would take so much longer, not to mention being frickin' heavy and harder to handle with each panel having all those letters permanently attached. The panels look like 3mm ACM.

20230330_190922.jpg 20230330_191002.jpg 20230330_191052.jpg
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
gnubler said:
I returned to the scene of this crime after hours, wanting to get a closer look. It gets even better! They went through the expense and time to have metal letters cut and individually welded onto what looks like a sheet of ACM, then did a sloppy job of painting everything black, then doing an even sloppier job of painting the letters a metallic copper. I saw some drips of the copper paint on the black backer. This is a 2-faced sign and the layout and position of the letters is different on each side...wish I could post the entire thing for you. Check out the attached snippets, one one side a capital S is upside down and the lowercase P baseline is all wrong. Pretty sure this business is a boyfriend/girlfriend ownership situation and I'm guessing there was massive fighting going on during the build of this sign, an angry rush to just get it installed and be done with it, and now more fighting as they have to look at it every day.

Any opinions on welding vs using threaded studs? Seems like welding would take so much longer, not to mention being frickin' heavy and harder to handle with each panel having all those letters permanently attached. The panels look like 3mm ACM.

View attachment 164805 View attachment 164806 View attachment 164807
Click to expand...
This is amazing! the complete lack of skill and general knowledge on display in these 3 pictures tells me everything I need to know about the client.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
gnubler said:
I returned to the scene of this crime after hours, wanting to get a closer look. It gets even better! They went through the expense and time to have metal letters cut and individually welded onto what looks like a sheet of ACM, then did a sloppy job of painting everything black, then doing an even sloppier job of painting the letters a metallic copper. I saw some drips of the copper paint on the black backer. This is a 2-faced sign and the layout and position of the letters is different on each side...wish I could post the entire thing for you. Check out the attached snippets, one one side a capital S is upside down and the lowercase P baseline is all wrong. Pretty sure this business is a boyfriend/girlfriend ownership situation and I'm guessing there was massive fighting going on during the build of this sign, an angry rush to just get it installed and be done with it, and now more fighting as they have to look at it every day.

Any opinions on welding vs using threaded studs? Seems like welding would take so much longer, not to mention being frickin' heavy and harder to handle with each panel having all those letters permanently attached. The panels look like 3mm ACM.

View attachment 164805 View attachment 164806 View attachment 164807
Click to expand...
You have some mad skills if you can weld a big fat bead like that onto ACM. You're a magician if you can weld that steel to ACM.
 
gnubler

gnubler

Active Member
Good point. They slathered on the black paint so thick it was hard to tell what the backer is.

I'm just glad I went with my gut and never followed up on this job. Working with them would have been a nightmare.
 
2B

2B

Active Member
Have rates that are competitive, but NOT the bottom dollar.
you want to win between 60% - 75% of your submittals, this is the "sweet spot" allowing for constant work and allowing to focus on quality and other points of the business
* more than this too cheap,
* less than this too expensive

In this case, be direct and ask to for them to confirm the bids are for like materials and services OR say you have the option to BEAT a competitor's price. BUT they have to give you the full submitted estimate to be eligible (no redactions or "verbal")
**** also have the disclaimer that the pricing program is at YOUR discretion and NOT a guarantee that you will beat the submitted price

a recent bid was lost for a "rigid" sign come to find out the "winner" did a banner, mounting it to OSB Sheating with its edges wrapped
guess what, the end customer only saw RIGID and the low price, none of the other points on the bid

When pricing, the GOOD > BETTER > BEST is ideal but rarely practical. We typically quote as "requested" and depending on the feel from the sales consult will include the "budget" option or the "premium"
**** It is usually best to have examples of GOOD > BETTER > BEST side by side so they can realize what is meant
 
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