OUTDOOR Installation: Advise on attaching anodized aluminum to 3/4" PVC sheets.

[Janjun]

I have a project coming up soon and would like to get advise on the best way to adhere/attach clear anodized aluminum sheets to 3/4" e-PVC substrate. The project will consist of a 55"x55" and a 90"x30" section. Each will have two .040 Clear Anodized Aluminum sheets sandwiching a 3/4" e-PVC solid board.

Each section will be attached to a frame on all 4 sides.

These will be outdoors and exposed to the elements/sun. The project will be located in Ocala, FL (Central Florida) where it does get relatively cold during the winter, humid and hot summer days are the norm.

My original plan was to use an industrial contact adhesive (like http://goo.gl/skrRD ) to adhere the aluminum to both sides of the e-PVC. But, according to tech support, it may not work.

Using blind rivets was also recommended but that will change the look of the design. I had hoped to keep the anodized aluminum as one continuous and smooth sheet (no rivets).

Could you please recommend an adhesive that will support such an outdoor project, long term and permanently adhere the aluminum to the ePVC? If a combination of adhesive with blind rivets is recommended then please advise. if you have any other ideas then please share. I am open to your knowledge and experience with such a project.

Thank you for your quick reply. Would like to start as soon as possible.

 

[J Hill Designs]

double sided laminating adhesive sheets would work...at those sizes, you also need to take into account that the ePVC will have a grossly different rate of expansion... I would try and incorporate some sort of border framing to hide a few mechanical fasteners..

 

[visual800]

i would 2 part epoxy the back of aqluminum and the face of the pvc and then dab with silicone AND atach a few stainless steel small screws in it just to mak me sleep at night. No one likes fasteners showing but if you are creative they can be hidden

 

[Janjun]

double sided laminating adhesive sheets would work...at those sizes, you also need to take into account that the ePVC will have a grossly different rate of expansion... I would try and incorporate some sort of border framing to hide a few mechanical fasteners..

Jill, so would the mechanical fasteners on the perimeter (for instance, on the four 55"x55" sides) allow the sandwiching anodized sheets to adhere to the ePVC? Should the fasteners be 12" apart? More frequent? I also worried about the fact that the PVC plastic would expand and shrink with temperature differences.

Also, can you recommend a specific brand of adhesive sheet and source?

Thank you.

 

[Rick]

Lords adhesive with 3M's VHB would be fine.

The other way would be forget the PVC and use 3/4" x 1 1/2" aluminum tubing to give it the thickness then goop it on with Lords adhesive to the aluminum frame. That way you don't have to deal with varying expansion rates.

 

[Janjun]

i would 2 part epoxy the back of aqluminum and the face of the pvc and then dab with silicone AND atach a few stainless steel small screws in it just to mak me sleep at night. No one likes fasteners showing but if you are creative they can be hidden

Thanks. Would you recommend standard 2-part epoxy like LOCTITE? Also, I imagine the dabs of silicone would act as a flexible "stretch" aid which would allow for the expansion of the ePVC during temperature variances? if not LOCTITE, what would you recommend?

I like using 10.1 oz Tube | Translucent Bondaflex Sil 100 GP Silicone Sealant & Adhesive ... But, do you recommend another? What do you use?

Thank you

 

[J Hill Designs]

The other way would be forget the PVC and use 3/4" x 1 1/2" aluminum tubing to give it the thickness then goop it on with Lords adhesive to the aluminum frame. That way you don't have to deal with varying expansion rates.

This is what I would do.

 

[Moze]

I agree with Rick's idea. 4905 or 4910 VHB tape around the entire perimeter and a few central pieces and I think you'd be fine. It has enough give to accommodate the expansion.

edit: May want to check with 3M on which tape is best suited for ePVC. I know it will work on aluminum, poly and acrylic....not sure about ePVC.

 

[Janjun]

Lords adhesive with 3M's VHB would be fine.

The other way would be forget the PVC and use 3/4" x 1 1/2" aluminum tubing to give it the thickness then goop it on with Lords adhesive to the aluminum frame. That way you don't have to deal with varying expansion rates.

Interesting, thanks. Yes, I thought about using 3/4" (or even 1") SQUARE aluminum (just to allow for that smooth flat fit) but i did not think there was an adhesive that was strong enough to permanently adhere the aluminum anodized sheet to the aluminum bar (whether it is square or round).

I've never used LORDS. Will this work even in an outdoor applications in the harsh hot and humid Florida sun and relatively cold winters?

If I go this direction, is the more costly square tubing overkill? Will the LORDS "goop" make the need for a flat surface irrelevant?

Thanks

 

[J Hill Designs]

Yeah I was thinking Square tube. I wouldn't trust the small point of contact on round tube. 1/16" wall is probably fine for this application, unless it gets overly torqued.

LORDS is extremely aggressive epoxy rated exterior.

 

[Moze]

If you go with an aluminum frame, the clear VHB tape by itself will do the job. The stuff is incredibly strong and long lasting if you prep the material correctly.

 

[Rick]

If this is a "permanent" sign, tubing would be standard in my opinion. I would use "RECTANGLE" tubing to get more surface to adhere too.

Lords Adhesive is different that 3M stuff you were looking at. It's an epoxy, is exterior grade and can handle harsher conditions that you have.

 

[Janjun]

If this is a "permanent" sign, tubing would be standard in my opinion. I would use "RECTANGLE" tubing to get more surface to adhere too.

Lords Adhesive is different that 3M stuff you were looking at. It's an epoxy, is exterior grade and can handle harsher conditions that you have.

OK, this LORDS stuff sounds like MAGIC!!! (The next best invention since Duct tape ;-) ... The advantages of more adhesion surface area with square tubing is obvious (Jill mentioned ot + others, too). But, there are two issues I have with the square tubing:

(1) It costs more. But, it is not a budget breaker. I suppose if it provides better, more secure, adhesion surface area (and peace of mind for a permanent, long-term outdoor display) then I might as well go with aluminum square tubing.

(2) I don't know how to weld aluminum. Will I have to weld the aluminum to make the frame work when using SQUARE tubing? Or can I just cut the pieces, lay them out, and adhere them to one of the anodized aluminum sheets (butting together the aluminum square pieces) and adhere the other sheet over it? With aluminum round pipe, i can bend it and join it with fittings.

Also, besides brushing the aluminum with a metal brush and cleaning with white vinegar, what else should I do to prep the aluminum PIPE before adhering it to the anodized sheet with LORDS?

Also, do i have to worry about the LORDS breaking apart or not adhering (in time) with the micro-thin anodized coating of the clear satin aluminum anodized sheet?

 

[J Hill Designs]

Instead of welding, you can use angle clips and screw it all together...

 

[Janjun]

Instead of welding, you can use angle clips and screw it all together...

Great idea, Jill. Thanks!

So, is this the proper LORDS product? http://goo.gl/E91TX

Also, where do you get your BEST price for the LORDS product? I need a lot of it and would love to get the best price. Please post URL if possible.

Thanks