Outfitting my shop... cutter and printer questions.

[The Super Nickel]

Hi Everyone!

I found this forum on Google while researching equipment. I have some really basic questions and just need a nudge in the right direction if you will.

First of all I need to understand if cutters and printers are always two separate pieces of equipment or if sometimes they are all-in-one.

Secondly, I think I am about to become the sudden owner of a Summa Sign T1300 and I need to know if it is only a cutter, or is it a vinyl printer as well?

I actually have a mentor who is willing to show me the ropes, but it will require travel and an extended stay which I can not manage at the moment. He doesn't like email and phones too much so I'm trying to get some info in advance of my trip.

I'm hoping to spend the next couple of months getting the shop outfitted.

Any info you can give me about the Summa T1300, including what other equipment I would need, like printers, software, etc. would be a great help. By the way, I was told I'll be getting the Summa software and cables with it, if that helps.

BTW, I am getting into this business for two reasons.

I want to do something else for a living and I have always been interested in this field.

But more importantly...

I have a bright son (with Asperger's) who really needs to learn a trade. I am probably the only person who has the patience to train him in anything. So we need something we can learn together with me guiding him for a good while to start. Later we will probably be in the biz together, or he will take it over. This is the beginning of a dream and the answer of a prayer for me because I wondered for a long time how I would help him transition into his adult work life. He seems very interested in this which is a huge prerequisite for most Aspie folks, if you know what I mean. Now I've been presented with the opportunity to help him in a way I worried that I would never be able too.

I'll also mention that I don't have any grandiose delusions about this. I know it's going to be a great challenge - and that's great. I'm sure we'll be doing political/yard signs and door lettering for quite a while at first.

So much for my rambling. I'm really looking forward to learning, and eventually giving back to all of you here on this forum. Thanks for having me!

 

[JeremySI]

hmmm for just jumping that deep in the person i am scared for you in that you seem to have absolutely no idea about anything in the business, you dont even have a clue about a piece of equipment you are getting.

i think you need to take a step back and do a little more research and figure things out a little better before just opening up a shop and being clueless as to what you are doing.

 

[Mainframe]

TSN, It looks like the Summa Sign T1300 is just a plotter, You don't have to start out having a printer but in today's market it would be helpful. A lot of decisions you make will depend on your budget, one of the best business moves you can make is not to generate too much start up debt, also, don't overlook the importance of design, the sign industry revolves around vector graphics, do you have any experience with this type of file? The standard programs for this are Corel Draw & Adobe illustrator, Learning to tame vectors will be one of you biggest (of many) challenges you will face in your start up. You will also need to learn some graphic design skills to make sure your work looks professional. The search button in this forum will be one of your best friends, try to do a search before posting a question as not to annoy the Veterans on here too much. I have a younger brother with Autism who I had to raise from a middle schooler through college. I was 22 at the time & quite clueless about life etc. but I am a fast learner with great patience so "I feel your pain" when it comes to your son, I will try to help if I can. Good luck,
Bill

 

[fmg]

Good luck with everything!

 

[AUTO-FX]

A lot of veterans here will highly recommend you outsource for your printing needs, at least for an initial period of time. There are several merchant members here who will help you with that.

 

[speedmedia]

Yes, be very careful. I just bought out a friend of mines equipment for pennies on the dollar because he thought he was going to buy all this stuff and jump in. Problem is he didn't know how to use it or market it. Three years later he has lost everything he once had. It is sad. Outsource and make sure you have shearing on how this biz works, especially in these times. Everyone is undercutting everyone else and these shops are popping up everywhere with untrained people putting out subpar work at best.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[Vinylman]

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE!

Tell those of us who have spent most of our professional lives attempting to improve the Quality of work that we provide, and eliminating the continuing abuse of our profession by ona be hacks. That this is just a big joke.

I am sure that somewhere in Kansas you can find a reasonably priced school to assist you and your son in learning how to run a lawn care service.

I'm fairly sure that you have the best intentions for you and your son to find a profession or vocation that will assist him in providing income for his future.

My concern, as maybe many of us who are in this profession, is that we do not need another trainee who wants to do it on his own. If you're serious, there are several two,- four-year training programs that would properly prepare you and/or your son, for the Profession of sign painting.


I never cease to be amazed by the number of people who think that because they can type on the computer, they have the skills necessary to be in the sign business. Of course casual observation of the substandard work that currently is available in our marketplace would indicate that there are thousands just like you who think there's nothing to it. And I guess just because you can sell your desktop publishing sign projects to an unsuspecting public is a very strong indication as to how uneducated many small businesses are today regarding the value of quality advertising. We see it everywhere from simple yard signs to major advertising campaigns with sloppy vehicle wraps and unreadable graphics.

Any town, anywhere in this great country, we can see a landscape littered with poorly designed and poorly executed advertising. It is the bane of our industry.

Lawn cutting services on the other hand, can always use another mower somewhere. No matter how badly you screw up the cutting, it will repair itself within weeks. Which gives you yet another chance to learn your trade. It doesn't get much better than that.

So, as a service to the sign profession, You might do yourself and your family, as well as the sign profession an awesome service. Try starting a business that you may already have some basic skill sets acquired from your own past experience.

I'm quite sure that my comments here will upset some on this board as well as perhaps yourself. I have personally been in the graphics industry for well over 30 years, seen many people just like you, come and go, and those of us who have chosen this as a life long profession, each day work desperately to provide enough income after taxes to feed and clothe their families. it is not always easy, but it is a profession that I love and work daily at trying to perfect my skills and raise the level of professionalism in the advertising market in which I have chosen to spend my life.

I am always ready to share the years of knowledge that had been shared with me by other professionals and skilled craftsmen in this business. I have personally put on seminars and training sessions at major trade shows across this country, so I have no fear whatsoever of sharing my "trade secrets” with anyone who is willing to put in the time effort and money to make this their life profession.

However, I am very, very weary of threads such as this that always seem to start out the same. “Hi!, I'm so-and-so, what you guys do looks like fun, I think I'll try it. Can anybody show me what I need to know and what I need to buy so that I can do what you spent most of your life accomplishing, Oh and by the way I only want to do this part-time and I don't have any money to start so how cheap can I do this?”

:Oops:
Well super nickel: that pretty much puts the puppy to bed for me, IF you're still here several days or several weeks from now and you're still asking good questions seeking quality responses I might be available to help you out.

But! By then you may not need, Nor want me to talk to you, either way, welcome the Signs 101 and I hope you enjoy your stay.

 

[yukon]

Brutal, Vinylman...

This guy seems optimistic and excited about our field, in my opinion, a vital component to success in any occupation. How many of us are truly self taught? I remember 20 years ago when I started out, the local art stores didn't even sell lettering quills, I had to reach out to guys in the biz to help guide me in learning even the simplest questions like what kind of brush to use! SignCraft was my teacher, along with SignWorld workshops and seminars. I wish I had the benefit of a resource like the "Internet" back then.

Give the guy a break, let him learn and succeed (or fail) on his own. His talent will come through if he has any.

We are the keepers of the craft, and we need to share a little.

Telling him to go into landscaping is insulting...

 

[Pat Whatley]

Telling him to go into landscaping is insulting...

Why? I know guys cutting grass (not full blown landscaping) who are pulling in $60,000 working 9 months a year.

Nickle, don't take Vinylman's post the wrong way. He's got a very valid point. There's a lot more to this than just typing in some letters and tossing some clipart at it. Granted, there's a market for it but it's the extreme bottom end of the pricing/profit scale. Design and layout skills can be learned but it takes years to get competent. Advancing enough to start cranking out mid to high end work where you can actually make a nice living is a whole different story, especially with the way the sign market is going.

Now, with all of that said if you're still interested then more power to you, you can actually get more help here than anywhere else I've ever found. The first thing I'm going to strongly suggest is to NOT jump into a digital printer right away. There are thousands of shops who "HAD" to have $40,000 in printing equipment only to find the monthly payments put them out of business. Find a good wholesaler, send your graphics to them and let them do the print work. Develop your market for printing, see how much you're actually going to be able to sell, and then you'll have a better idea of what type of printer to buy. My shop will spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $60,000 this year subbing out digital printed vinyl and banners. It works so well for us I don't know that I'll ever buy a printer. Sure, it's bitten me a few times but not enough to make me commit. Maybe this year, probably not.

The T-1300 is a cutting plotter, and a pretty nice one. Summas are pretty rock solid machines and their tech support is OUTSTANDING. If the sign thing doesn't work out you can always sell it and buy a lawnmower

Just remember to start small. Almost every sign equipment sales guy you'll meet is worse than a used car salesman. Listen to them, then ask here before you make a final decision. You'll get bombarded with smart-assed comments and real world answers...you'll have to determine which is which. Speaking of smart-assed comments I hope you've got thick skin. This place is brutal sometimes, just ignore it. Everybody is pretty harmless with the exception of Big Dawg. Stacey will hurt you if you get out of line.

Also, seriously work on your pricing. It seems like everyone who jumps into this business immediately decides to undersell the competition. Don't be that guy, especially if you're trying to build something to support you and your son. Sell for more, sell better service and better products. As your skills and knowledge get better so should your prices.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

At least you realize it's a long road. Best with everything. We're not in Kansas anymore.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Why? I know guys cutting grass (not full blown landscaping) who are pulling in $60,000 working 9 months a year.

Nickle, don't take Vinylman's post the wrong way. He's got a very valid point. There's a lot more to this than just typing in some letters and tossing some clipart at it. Granted, there's a market for it but it's the extreme bottom end of the pricing/profit scale.

Design and layout skills can be learned but it takes years to get competent. Advancing enough to start cranking out mid to high end work where you can actually make a nice living is a whole different story, especially with the way the sign market is going.

Now, with all of that said if you're still interested then more power to you, you can actually get more help here than anywhere else I've ever found. The first thing I'm going to strongly suggest is to NOT jump into a digital printer right away. There are thousands of shops who "HAD" to have $40,000 in printing equipment only to find the monthly payments put them out of business. Find a good wholesaler, send your graphics to them and let them do the print work. Develop your market for printing, see how much you're actually going to be able to sell, and then you'll have a better idea of what type of printer to buy.

The T-1300 is a cutting plotter, and a pretty nice one. Summas are pretty rock solid machines and their tech support is OUTSTANDING. If the sign thing doesn't work out you can always sell it and buy a lawnmower

Just remember to start small. Almost every sign equipment sales guy you'll meet is worse than a used car salesman. Listen to them, then ask here before you make a final decision. You'll get bombarded with smart-assed comments and real world answers...you'll have to determine which is which.

Also, seriously work on your pricing. It seems like everyone who jumps into this business immediately decides to undersell the competition. Don't be that guy, especially if you're trying to build something to support you and your son. Sell for more, sell better service and better products. As your skills and knowledge get better so should your prices.

I know at least 3 who were pulling in over a million a year.

 

[Pat Whatley]

A million bucks a year cutting grass? Exactly what kind of grass where they cutting? You know how many peeing Calvin's you've got to sell to make a million bucks?

 

[yukon]

Recommending he go into landscaping is insulting because it has nothing to do with the sign business. It came across as a no-brainer job that will get the bills paid. We see landscapers come and go here, there are very few that stand the test of time. There's a lot more investment needed to start a landscaping biz, trucks, equipment, manpower etc. And most important, it's a seasonal occupation!

I'd be insulted if someone told me that when I started out.

 

[fmg]

A million bucks a year cutting grass? Exactly what kind of grass where they cutting? You know how many peeing Calvin's you've got to sell to make a million bucks?

Plenty of Landscapers around here that pull in more than a million dollars a year.

 

[iSign]

couldn't finish this thread yet... gotta come back later.. can't see clearly from the steam blowing out my ears from Vinylmans' latest in a long line of assinine insults to himself & to humanity... tried to just get through the next few posts but got to the "why is it insulting" question and have to add that it doesn't make a rats ass of a difference of lawn care can yield profits... it's about harnessing passion & the human spirit...


Vinylman you are the most insensitive self centered egotistical primadonna on these boards & yet for all your perceived accomplishments in this field, you clearly lack one of the most critical business skills, which would be people skills..

To address this post, and it's author with your chickenchit drivel is to drive your reputation here further beneath the underbelly of human embarrassment then I've ever seen even you stoop to in past tirades...

By the way, I know a little about Aspie's, and the people skills might be an area of greater challenge, but I have no doubt that harnessing any passion or interest that rises to the top, & setting in front of this individual some opportunities to further explore & invest in those passions... that could be just the thing to make a huge difference in channeling the incredible focus & drive often found in individuals with autism. There is not one aspect of this business that need be beyond the reach of the original posters son, so I wish them well..
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oh yeah one more thing Vinyl man...
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lose the fat red crayon! ... your comments, littered with poorly designed and poorly executed emphasis, is the bane of our forum.

 

[yukon]

 

[fmg]

I see the ladies are coming out of the changing rooms.Here we go yet again! Let the games begin!

 

[iSign]

you must be peering under the ladies room door again fmg

 

[fmg]

Whata view!!

 

[AUTO-FX]

what's F-M-G stand for, BTW ?