Paint mask fiasco

[Jean Shimp]

Over the years we have experimented on various techniques to paint signs that are routed. We use a lot of PVC because it cuts well on the CNC router. We painted a 3x5' piece of PVC, let it cure, applied paint mask, routed out the letters, painted in the routed letters and then it's time to peel off the mask yielding a beautiful sign. Choosing the right mask has been a job because most of the paint masks do not hold down tight enough to rout through. We've tried cast vinyl as it holds tight - but then it's too tight to peel. The solution (we thought) was to use 3M series 50 intermediate vinyl because the adhesive is not permanent. It worked beautifully on several jobs but this morning as I am peeling off the vinyl ALL the glue stuck to the background. The sign is a total loss. Why did this happen? I bought the vinyl less than a year ago. Any thoughts on the cause or suggestions on a good paint mask for routing?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

You're painting, masking, routing, painting? In that order?

Why not route, mask, paint, remove mask, paint?

 

[Billct2]

We gave up that method. Too many failures. Now we rout, paint, mask, paint. Yes, it can be a pain to line up the mask, but I usually add a little border so the paint goes slightly over the edge of the letter onto face.

 

[GB2]

Jean, I use that same method on many projects too. I always use Gerber Mask II and for the most part it works well, though nothing will ever be perfect all the time. I've use Avery mask, which was terrible and others but the Gerber always seems to be the best. I don't know why you had that problem with the 3M 50 vinyl but that is the same problem that I experienced many time with Arlon vinyl so I don't ever use that. I imagine you must have a mess on that new sign but I'm not sure why some Rapid Remover shouldn't clean it up and have it come out in good condition so it isn't a total loss.

 

[Jean Shimp]

We gave up that method. Too many failures. Now we rout, paint, mask, paint. Yes, it can be a pain to line up the mask, but I usually add a little border so the paint goes slightly over the edge of the letter onto face.

Thanks for the reply. If I follow you, are you cutting a vinyl paint mask on a plotter and then applying it on top of a previously painted raised surface area after the background is routed? So, if you want a brown background sign with routed in tan letters, you first rout in the letters, then paint background brown, allow paint to cure, apply vinyl mask, paint tan letters, peel mask, then done? What vinyl are you using for paint mask?

 

[Jean Shimp]

Jean, I use that same method on many projects too. I always use Gerber Mask II and for the most part it works well, though nothing will ever be perfect all the time. I've use Avery mask, which was terrible and others but the Gerber always seems to be the best. I don't know why you had that problem with the 3M 50 vinyl but that is the same problem that I experienced many time with Arlon vinyl so I don't ever use that. I imagine you must have a mess on that new sign but I'm not sure why some Rapid Remover shouldn't clean it up and have it come out in good condition so it isn't a total loss.

Thanks, I'll try the Gerber mask. I am thinking maybe the 3M 50 went bad although I had it less than 1 year, it was a 50 yard roll and there is no date on the roll when purchasing. Tried calling Grimco about it but didn't get an answer, will try again. They should put dates on these rolls. We tried Rapid Remover but it took the paint off. Working this weekend so the sign will not be too late for delivery.

 

[Gino]

Still to this day, whether we are sandblasting or CNC routing, unless the sign has a natural background, we paint the surface first. Let it dry for a few days, then we apply frisket. Frisket comes 2 ways crinkle or flat. Either works, but we generally use the flat. It doesn't have any problems sticking. It creates a 100% perfect seal after cutting and never ever leaves a residue or peel up any paint. We have a few rolls as it is difficult to get. We've also have used plain application tape. For larger signs it works just fine. For little miticulous objects or copy, ya might hafta go in and touch up by hand, but still no big deal.

 

[letterman7]

What brand Frisket, Gino? I've also tried the paint-an-cut-through-paint mask method with little success.

 

[Billct2]

Thanks for the reply. If I follow you, are you cutting a vinyl paint mask on a plotter and then applying it on top of a previously painted raised surface area after the background is routed? So, if you want a brown background sign with routed in tan letters, you first rout in the letters, then paint background brown, allow paint to cure, apply vinyl mask, paint tan letters, peel mask, then done? What vinyl are you using for paint mask?

Yes, that's how we do it. I use Gerbermask.

 

[Sandman]

Jean, I use that same method on many projects too. I always use Gerber Mask II and for the most part it works well, though nothing will ever be perfect all the time. I've use Avery mask, which was terrible and others but the Gerber always seems to be the best. I don't know why you had that problem with the 3M 50 vinyl but that is the same problem that I experienced many time with Arlon vinyl so I don't ever use that. I imagine you must have a mess on that new sign but I'm not sure why some Rapid Remover shouldn't clean it up and have it come out in good condition so it isn't a total loss.

I'm surprised you had bad results with Avery paint mask. I just routed an HDU sign a few weeks ago with a V bit and it worked great. I've used thousands of yards painting basketball courts and weight lifting platforms and it always performed the best and I tried lots of them, but I'll admit I've never used it on PVC.

 

[mattc5900]

We use Gerber Mask....