Panels have mismatching colors. Printed from same file. Help!

[CSOCSO]

Hey guys. I have a Roland VS540i for years and usually don't have many issues with it but this is really pissing me off. I printed a van and the panels are different colors. Same are more off than others.

Printed on the same roll of Avery 1105 vinyl ( and same 1060z lam)
Same inks. None of them ran out during printing.
Same eps file. All panels were on this single file.
All colors are spot colors to achieve perfect grey prints and for color consistency between vehicles.
Nothing was changed during/between printing. Same profile. Same checkboxes in print settings and color settings.

Bottom of the side panel is a LOT darker than the top. As I said it was from the same file. panels were not printed at the same time. Bottom panel was smaller so I had to adjust the print are in clip and tile but nothing else was changed. Because of this versaworks ( up to date ver.5) re-ripped the same file.
After installing the side and back I realized even the back is different shade but not as bad.
Any ideas?

Hard to see the color difference between the back and the sides but the seam is on the corner. not in the door gap. Yes... I know i could have wrapped it all the way around till the gap...

 

[shoresigns]

Two possibilities here:

A) Your printer's colour output changes slightly from the right to left sides. This is very common and is why VersaWorks has a setting that rotates every 2nd panel 180 degrees. Looks for Place Alternated in the Clip & Tile tab. This issue isn't limited to Roland printers and it's a very common practice to rotate every other panel when printing wraps, so that the colours match at the seams.

B) Your rendering intent is set to something other than Colorimetric. This could have caused the post-RIP colour values to change on the panel that you cropped and re-ripped. Check in the Colour Management panel and make sure you have vector and raster processing set to Colorimetric (aka Relative Colorimetric).

 

[CSOCSO]

I will check on the color management but i am pretty sure its on the default setting from the get go. I know about the flip every other panel setting. A roland guy told me about it when i had similar issue a year ago or so. I still had warranty so they were helpful but it did not help at all. Print has a solid color side to side. No fade. Not even the slightest amount. Dont matter how i rotate the solid print the color is off the same way. Actually i was very surprised when the passanger side top and bottom panel wasn't off as bad as the driver side top and bottom. Still noticeable but better. And even the right back door was matching better to the passenger side. Now on the photos i just realized that the two back door is different shades of grey also....smh...
The back doors were printed from the same file, at the same time. No re rips. No change at all. At this point even if the customer refuses to take the car i wont reprint anything... No guarantee of what this machine will print.. Wtf...

 

[ddarlak]

what does your test print look like?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

What he said... I'd be suspicious if a color started dropping out.

 

[SightLine]

Possibly environmental change between printing the different panels? Environmental humidity and temperature play a pretty big role on how things print on all machines. Just saying - with the rain we get this time of the year the average humidity can go from 50% to 100% in literally 20 minutes. We do keep our printers in a separate small room specifically to avoid any dramatic environmental changes. Oh and eps files? I did not think anywhere still really uses that format. I'm not familiar with Versaworks though so maybe that is what works best for it. Pretty much everything we work with is either PDF, native Illustrator, or native Photoshop files anymore.

 

[CSOCSO]

I will check the test print but last time i checked it was perfect. The machine has a brand new roland head. What's wrong with eps? I dont care what people like to use. It works. I hate it that with pdf you have to make sure the work space covers the graphics or it wont show up in versaworks and cuts off the graphics. Yeah i know i could fix the issue but basically i never mess with the work space. Most of the time i dont care how big or small or where is the work space.

 

[shoresigns]

I will check the test print but last time i checked it was perfect. The machine has a brand new roland head. What's wrong with eps? I dont care what people like to use. It works. I hate it that with pdf you have to make sure the work space covers the graphics or it wont show up in versaworks and cuts off the graphics. Yeah i know i could fix the issue but basically i never mess with the work space. Most of the time i dont care how big or small or where is the work space.

EPS might be fine for your setup, but it is a legacy format. PDF is the de facto standard format for printing.

When you export to PDF, you get a lot more control over your final production file than you do with EPS. This includes:

1. Add trim marks
2. Add bleed
3. Convert colours to CMYK (or RGB)
4. Include ICC profiles
5. Flatten transparencies
6. Downsize images that are over 300ppi (or whatever resolution you prefer)
7. Lossy or lossless image compression options
8. PDF/X formats, which are standardized versions of PDF that increase compatibility with different apps and machines

If you want consistent colour output on your printer, some of the above options are pretty important to have.

 

[CSOCSO]

Add trim marks -- ( you can do this in the rip software. [Has nothing to do with format?])
Add bleed ?--not even sure how this would work. This is something i would do in illustrator or photoshop.
Convert colours to CMYK (or RGB)-- Never convert stuff. all my files are rgb. Everytime i print cmyk the colors come out washed out.
Include ICC profiles-- ( icc profiles are selected in rip software?)
Flatten transparencies -- Again.. something i would do in illustrator or photoshop but I only have to use this if versaworks won't register the cut line because of a layer having transparency.
Downsize images that are over 300ppi (or whatever resolution you prefer) -- same... i would do it in illustrator . I do not understand why does it matter if its eps or pdf.

Not trying to be a smart ass. If there is anything i am missing here please let me know.

 

[CSOCSO]

I checked the test prints. It's flawless. Not a single error. My print head was changed this year. Along with everything. Cap tops. Dampener. Actually i just realised my color does drop it. Just saw it on the pictures of the back doors. EDIT: I am stupid. no color drop out. after looking at the pictures again and again i realized the color drop out was nothing else but the reflection of the garage door behind me. walls were right both sides of the vehicle and dark garage doors made it look like the middle of the back was different color. It's not the case thank god but panels are still off color.

 

[CSOCSO]

anyone? Ideas? help!

 

[shoresigns]

Can you go through everything we already suggested and tell us what you've tried?

i.e. someone suggested environmental factors such as temperature and humidity can affect your colours, which is true. Did you print the two panels one right after the other or were they done at different days/times? Or have you tried reprinting them at the same time? Or is your printer in a climate-controlled room?

What colour management settings are you using in Versaworks? I suggested that if anything wasn't set to colorimetric, it could explain the difference in colour.

You could also upload your files for us to take a look and see if we can find anything. I'd be curious to check them for anything that may have caused the problem.

 

[CSOCSO]

Are you trying to reprint this particular wrap or just hunt down the issue for the future?

I dont want to jinx myself. For now I just want to know the issue and fix the machine if it needs any fixing.

 

[CSOCSO]

Can you go through everything we already suggested and tell us what you've tried?

i.e. someone suggested environmental factors such as temperature and humidity can affect your colours, which is true. Did you print the two panels one right after the other or were they done at different days/times? Or have you tried reprinting them at the same time? Or is your printer in a climate-controlled room?

What colour management settings are you using in Versaworks? I suggested that if anything wasn't set to colorimetric, it could explain the difference in colour.

You could also upload your files for us to take a look and see if we can find anything. I'd be curious to check them for anything that may have caused the problem.

Test print looks perfect.
It is in an AC room.
Printed with the correct settings. It's printed on avery 1105 with the correct profile. Color settings is on colormetric on both rgb and cmyk.
Printed on the same rool and laminated with the same lam. Printed from the SAME exact file. Once the top panel was printed I went back to clip and tile to unclick / click on what needs to be printed and kept printed so I would say: it was printed at the same time. As I said same exact file. The color that was really off is just grey and i used eps file with roland spot colors.

 

[Baz]

I also vote for Gremlins!

I have the same flaw with my VS-540 and Versaworks.
I can print full wraps but if i have a small portion (tile) printing at the end i will see a color change.
Same file, same settings ... Just slightly off tone. It is especially visible on light colors (like your grey)
It is never enough to scrap the job and i never had a customer complain but it can be noticeable.
I tried flipping the tiles one after the other but no go.

I think it is in the ink delivery system right to the head. It starts off cold and by the end of a print run it is nice and hot and then
you will see a color shift from where you first started printing.

 

[signman315]

It's tough to follow exactly your scenario but some food for thought....I've seen instances where cropping/rotating and Re-Ripping a file cause color shift. Most often when the print file uses clipping masks and spot colors. I've seen Versaworks and ONYX both struggle when the design is heavy with clipping masks and spot colors, especially in EPS files. Newer PDF formats handle it better but I've also seen it happen with PDFs. So do yourself a test.....in your design software make two 12" x 12" squares, assign them the same spot color then convert one of them to process CMYK/RGB (whatever color space you are using). They should both appear exactly the same in the design software. Now take a random design (made up of various paths, etc) and put a clipping mask on it and layer it over your (2) 12" x12" squares in such a way that half of each square is cover by the clipping mask object and the other half of each square isn't covered. Then test print this....what you will likely find is that the transparent areas in the clipping mask that are on top of the spot color causes color shifts. Any transparency that is layered on top of a spot color and processed through Versaworks/ONYX are going to have an undesirable color shift. There's all kinds of workarounds for this, and transparency issues are worse with RGB space in my experience....but the simplest to explain work around is to rasterize the design in your design software and save that as an EPS/PDF for print. This will flatten all of those transparency problems and the RIP won't have trouble interpreting it. The downfall is you lose your spot color replacement (if your using it) in the RIP but depending on the color and your situation that might not be an issue. Or you can just convert all colors from spot to process and that should do it to. Bottom line, many RIPs have trouble interpreting transparencies on top of spot colors. Might not be what you are experiencing but by your explanation it's a real possibility....

 

[RICHARD SIMMONS]

Hi CSOCSO ! Could you solve the problem of color difference in the panels? I was reading all the recommendations and I still have the same problem too. Would you be so kind as to share your experience? Thank you !
https://signs101.com/members/csocso.37758/

 

[CSOCSO]

Hi CSOCSO ! Could you solve the problem of color difference in the panels? I was reading all the recommendations and I still have the same problem too. Would you be so kind as to share your experience? Thank you !

Unfortunately i wasnt able to solve it. I have no clue whats going on.

 

[Zhino Designs]

I just has the same issue, apart from consistent grey being a nightmare to print in tile format, I found inconsistent tempeture contro a big factor in my mismatches, so printing early in the morning when it was warm but and then print midday as one of the tille went wrong I had to reprint, totqal disaster and not matching at all. I found messing with the contract option in versaworks helped me come a lot closed to the colour but stiull not 100%.. We are now making a room for the printer to be in consistent tempeture and humidy and hopefully this help.

 

[unmateria]

Using solvent/ecosolvent is
not usually the room conditions where you print, but the conditions of ink curing after printing and the conditions before printing. Vinyl must have the same temperature and humidity as in the printing roon at least 24h , specially if old rolls are used. Mpi's from avery gets aged soon... They say 10 years without printing but the reality for me is 2 years max and then forget to print them because you will have a lot of quality problems. And well... Always wait 48h before laminating (specially if much ink used) or measure/profile colors. I think that was the problem here... Or using a perceptual intent instead a colorimetric one.

Ah... Temperature and humidity problems are much worse if an incorrect densitometry is used. Many (most) of those manufacturer made profiles spit too much ink than necessary to get those supersaturated colours... And that means too much solvent has to evaporate and shrinking will appear (and yes, it will change colours). You can adjust it very much with eyes, but for me, a densitometer is a must have if you dont want to get angry all the time (and not be able to correct it for next time...)