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Question PC12 & PC600... Need ColorChoice v2x & v3x

Discussion in 'Roland' started by Onebadbug, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    So, ok I've cut vinyl for more many years than I can renumber but... A few months ago very good friend passed away I was given the task of helping his family emptying his sign business...

    ..to make a long story short, along the way tucked up in the space above his personal office, under a canvas tarp was a Roland PC12 & a PC600 along with 10+ cases of resin cartridges. And after helping, his family get rid of his expensive stuff they gave these to me for helping him. And, end of story...

    So now I brought them home a few weeks ago and quickly found out that these things are so ridiculously old they are nearly useless. But none the less now I want to make them do something, c'mon, it was all free...

    So, on one of my shelves was an old windows XP laptop I haven't turned on in over a decade, found some drivers for them at Roland, found a copy of ColorChoice 4.5 and then stuffed in my old discs of CorelDraw12 and what do ya know, both machine print & cut just like they are new, But...

    It seems though, to use spot colors, especially the metallics... Reading around, it sounds like when ColorChoice went up to version 4.0 & up that support for the Roland PC printers were omitted at v4.0 and to use correctly from CorelDraw the new version of CC does not have the proper RCC (?) files for spot colors? ...And that you have to have the earlier version, 2x or 3x, of ColorChoice present on the system so that it will along with CorelDraw 8-12

    On my main machine that I cut my vinyl jobs from, I use CorelDraw X8... and when I look in the X8 palette manager, for versaworks, they are all there but when I look at the old machine they don't exist... I've tried exporting them from X8 backward to earlier versions to load into the 98 machine running CD12 but they lose everything... And I've even tried saving them to .eps files level 3 and still no spot colors other than CutContour... Everything CMYK prints perfectly & the spot colors automatically are change to CMYK values...

    So, does anyone know where I can find the 2x or 3x versions of ColorChoice?

    Or, give me a little bit of advice here to help me figure out the spot color printing?

    thanks...
     
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  2. Bert Wondervan

    Bert Wondervan Member

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    You can easily control your old machines with a PC with Windows 10, 8, or 7.
    The only thing that you need is a serial to USB cable.
    You can purchase these on the internet.
     
  3. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    Yes, I have a Keyspan serial/USB adapter that I've been using with my Ioline I/S130 for cutting vinyl for years now and that does work just fine & directly from my main (Win10, 64bit & CDX8) direct to the Ioline.

    So, I did try it on both of the printers but, nothing happened... Not even cutting, I figured if it would at least cut then maybe it would maybe print from a generic or legacy win print driver but, no cut, no print... So, I put them back on the XP machine and both work as they should...

    I did notice though that when I tried my adapter on them, when I sent the job file, it would spool up as normal print job woold & and after spooling it would send the job as I could see that data was being sent by the LED indicator on the adapter flashing but, nothing happened...

    Unless maybe there are differences with other adapters (other than Keyspan) out there that may work? ...And in a very old post about the PC600, someone had said they were using a specific Belkin made serial to USB adapter that was described as having proper pin locations for use with Roland legacy printers & cutters but, there was no mention of an actual model# or part# ...

    If anyone here knows which one actually will allow both printing & cutting, let me know, I'm all ears...
     
  4. Bert Wondervan

    Bert Wondervan Member

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    Nov 8, 2018
    Germany

    Nothing happens without SignLab Print and Cut 10 install.
    1- Connect the printer with the cable to your PC with windows 10.
    2- Download and install SignLab Print and Cut 10 on your PC with Win 10,
    3- Run SignLab Print and Cut and see the result
     
  5. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    $2,500.00 :( ...That's not even remotely in my budget for what I do...

    What I do these days is nowhere near as ambitious compared to what I used to do back in the day... My goal is to simply make some use of these machines as they are work like they are new & the amount of consumables that came along them would just be a shame to let sit idle.

    There has to be someone here that has the pre-V.4 versions of ColorChoice disc(s) laying around, or even a copy for these 2 different ancient machines to run correctly under windows XP...
     
  6. Sign Works

    Sign Works Very Active Member

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    Sacramento, CA
    Check your "Conversations" , sent you a message
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    Thank you!
     
  8. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    Ok, so now I'm really curious...

    How do you directly print & cut from CorelDraw X8 or Adobe a Win10 64bit machine and a serial/USB adapter, as suggested above... without any driver that can detect it? ..And without spending $2,500 or $60 monthly software lease

    Since I know my Keyspan adapter (works great with my Ioline) I thought maybe a different adapter might have a different result. So, while out running errands today stopped & found a no-name brand one at Best-Buy (was kinda flabbergasted they actually had one) $18... And then stopped at a local Computer repair/resale shop & they found a used Belkin branded one they dug up for $10.

    Got home, tried both of them on each printer... And still, No cut, No print... nothing... So, tested both of these adapters back on the Ioline and both work just as good as the Keyspan adapter does....

    SO WHAT IS THE TRICK TO MAKE THEM PRINT & CUT?

    Don't get me wrong here, I have no problem working these machines from the older XP machine they are now connected to but, it would be real nifty if I could do everything all from one single machine...

    ...And to the individuals that insist messaging me with obscure directions to send an email to god-knows-where for software you think I need? STOP! I am an established legitimate business & I have no desire to purchase pirated software!
     
  9. Bert Wondervan

    Bert Wondervan Member

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    Germany
    You need a program like SignLab to run your printers. Without the necessary software for your printers, you can not do anything with your printers.
    You do not have to pay $2500 I have the used of this program which is very cheaper than the new version.
     
  10. Hielorojo

    Hielorojo Member

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    Aug 24, 2015
    MADRID-SPAIN
    Hello, I think that I have a Color Choice 3.0 on my Computer, send me a private message.
     
  11. Bert Wondervan

    Bert Wondervan Member

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    Nov 8, 2018
    Germany
    If your software supports your printers then your printers will work, otherwise you need to use a different software like SignLab.
    If your printers work with your software in Win XP but not in Windows 10, 8, 7 then your software is too old and does not support your printers in windows 10, 8, 7 and you must have the latest version of this software.
     
  12. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    Thanks, PM sent

    --------------------------------------------

    Yeah, that was what I thought as far as the serial adapter on these... Years ago on this same XP machine I used to run & own Flexi v.7 but I foolishly lent my dongle to someone and, of course, I never ever saw him or it again... And that was when I went back to just running Corel on it's own as SAI was up to v.10 at that time and the only way to rectify that was to drop $900 to upgrade...

    It's odd though how the Ioline that I've owned since '99, that has no driver installed what so ever, cut's directly from X8 from a 64bit machine... you simply choose the correct port the adapter is in & it just works. So I had a bit of hope these machines might follow suit... But, turned out not to be...

    It's not a huge deal, was just hoping I could avoid setting up a second desk in my already cramped office. But, maybe down the road, if enough work comes out of them warranting going back to a Flexi lease then it's not out of the question but for now I'll just have to deal with how it is & what I have... and is working so far...

    About the only problems I'm really having with them is printing spot colors... I have no issues printing CMYK & cutting directly from the XP machine & Corel but, when I tried the first few spot colors? I followed the manuals to the letter but for some reason when I put in a red & blue spot cartridge in, as the manuals states, you are supposed to add a new spot color & simply name the spot color within Corel ie; Red_Resin, Blue_Resin etc.. and then just choose a representative color to allow you to distinguish from them in a drawing... Well, it turns out it's not that simple...

    The first runs thru with the simple spot colors of Red & Blue, I would designating them in the drawing by filling the intended shapes with the new spot colors I named properly & saved but... When the drawing was sent to either printer it would ignore the spot colors & instead would ignore the command and convert the spot areas to a CMYK value and print as such while never picking up the Spot cartridges...

    From there, as a test, I first started with the loaded Red cartridge. I made a simple drawing with about 10 variations of gradient filled long rectangles with Red being their base color and sent them to the printers to see if maybe the Red spot cartridge would pick up & as I watched the gradients print, low & behold along the gradients, it would pickup the Red_Resin spot color in similar shaded areas. From there, with a little patience & bit if deduction I was able to determine I found that beyond simply naming the spot color in Corel, it also had to have the correct color value entered along with it. (this is because I don't have the proper version of ColorChoice on the system, yet)

    My guess is, without the correct versions of ColorChoice installed, that the proper RCC profile needed to distinguish spot colors properly, are missing from the XP machine to be interpreted as the command of pick Red_Resin and must have a specific CMYK and/or RGB color value associated with the name Red_Resin entered in manually.... So once I figured out the actual color value it now picks up the cartridge, I simply went back, modified that spot color, entered the correct color value it needed to pick up the cartridge & Voila!

    Also, as I read the manuals further (there are at least 10-20 different supplemental manuals that need to sifted to actually get down to an actual answer). The one thing that kept popping up over & over was the constant mention of RCC profile and a general emphasis pointing at ColorChoice & driver (not just the driver alone) BOTH must be present on the machine together, especially if you are in the Adobe, Corel, Quark, etc... realm running them directly & standalone.

    And with now knowing this now, so far the only 2 spot colors I've been able to actually nail down is Red & Blue. And just those 2 basic colors literately to me 6 hours to decipher their actual color value. After that, of course I went right into trying a couple metallic spot colors and after about 2 full days of yanking my hair out of my hair I haven't been able to find what color value where any of them will pick up at so, that was when I turned to here in hopes of finding the correct versions of ColorChoice that would have originally come with...

    S101 has always been a great place (I've actually been here for more than a decade, and I remember when this place damn near fell apart, 99.9% of my history here went buh-bye when that happened I guess).

    So far I have managed to find the correct version that supports the PC600 but am still looking for the correct one that will support the PC12.
     
  13. Bert Wondervan

    Bert Wondervan Member

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    Nov 8, 2018
    Germany


    Good luck,
     
  14. Onebadbug

    Onebadbug New Member

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    Jun 22, 2010
    Northern Illinois
    Thank you to the ones that found me the correct versions of RCC that work with very well with the PC600 between CorelDraw12 & CorelDrawX3 under a 32bit XP environment, I appreciate it very, very much!

    In case anyone one is curious which versions work with the PC600 & which ones don't...
    Version 2.0 - UNKNOWN
    Version 2.X
    - UNKNOWN
    Version 3.0 - SHOULD WORK
    (I assume this is the version of RCC that originally shipped with PC600's)
    Version 3.1 - WORKS (supports PC600 exclusively)
    Version 3.1b - WORKS (supports both PC600 & some Cammjets)

    Version 4.1 - WORKS (supports PC600 Colorcamm exclusively)
    Version 4.2 - UNKNOWN STILL LOOKING FOR 4.2 FOR THE PC12 MACHINE!
    Version 4.5 - DOES NOT WORK
    (supports only Cammjets, Soljets & HiFijet)


    What I've learned so far... I don't care how you try make Corel print spot colors directly from Corel, it just doesn't happen. You can set the spot, like Gold_Resin etc... but when uoi print directly out from Corel, it changes the Gold_Resin parts to CMYK values and prints them, but it will pick up the cart after that & then just puts it back into the carriage as if it doesn't know what to do with it...

    If you don't use any spot colors & just simply draw & design these will print & cut all day long with no issues in CMYK. So far the only way I can get it to actually print the spot colors as intended the only thing I've found is by exporting the Corel file as EPS & then importing it into RCC & then all the spot colors work exactly as they should but, the downside, when printing out from RCC for the CMYK portions of a job, they print with a really strange dither to them but the spot colors like Red, Blue, Gold, Silver print without dithering and makes the final product look mismatched dithering methods...

    So what am I doing wrong?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  15. sprockett

    sprockett New Member

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    Apr 10, 2012
    New Zealand
     
  16. sprockett

    sprockett New Member

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    Apr 10, 2012
    New Zealand
    Hi Onebadbug
    Any chance i can get a copy of colorchoice 4.5.
    Having a real hard time getting a copy for my cj-500.

    thanks
     
  17. woolly

    woolly Active Member

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    Cornwall uk
    never used CC but used the windows driver for my pc 50 and 60 used to use spot colours by telling the driver to swap a particular colour for a definable spot.
    or of cause change the ribbon in the cart to trick it but doing that lost any voltage adjustment associated with the ribbon type due to the code on the cart face.
    you can even print your own code stickers for the carts for further trickery

    worth having a look here if you haven't http://download.rolanddg.jp/en/color.html#pc600 but has to be a xp machine to load as tried on 7 -10 several times and failed
     

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