Percent of Jobs by sales price

[Hal Smith]

It has been a while since I could tell you off the top of my head (8+ years) how many jobs we averaged a month or year that were $25, under $75 under$200 and over $400 in our shop. Am looking at this again and trying to estimate for a small retail sign shop that does digital printing, RTA's, banners, and hard substrate signage (Aluminum only) but no vehicle graphics or installs. Just trying to get a feel for what would be expected percentages of the work.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

That is going to vary so widely that the responses here will not mean much. Sign shops vary widely on what they offer and the clientele they serve.

 

[Hal Smith]

Thanks Tex, I fully realize that the answers if any will vary widely, Just trying to get an idea of of current conditions, my old shop, (closed in 2012) we were about 25% vehicles, 25% banners, maybe 10% bigger (over $300) jobs, and 40% smaller jobs, less than 150 of which the majority was probably under $75 one offs, one or two coro jobs, at that is how I remember it,

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

My minimum is $175. Most jobs I accept are $1k-$20k. I rarely do banners and nothing vehicle related...mostly do illuminated and non-illuminated commercial sign installation and project mgt.

 

[James Burke]

This is a timely post, for sure.

I keep playing a pivotal scene through my head from the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life".

George Bailey (Jimmy Stewart) is on a quest for great things in life but he constantly bemoans the fact that he's stuck in Bedford Falls, running (what he calls) a "penny ante" Building and Loan.

The term "penny ante" has become my 2021 mantra as I strive to better evaluate how I invest time and resources. I can't begin to tell you how many projects I've turned down because they test positive for penny ante. This kind of thinking has also helped me purge a lot of excess scraps of material and other miscellaneous junk that "might be useful someday". The reduction in clutter has only helped improve productivity and focus.


JB

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So nobody likes little time wasting jobs, fair enough but ask yourself how many good customers you have picked up because their regular guy blew them off over something small. There is one thing that always sticks in the back of my mind, times are good right now but they never are forever. Be careful how much you piss in your cornflakes. I'm not advocating taking on nonsense but hard and fast rules or sticking your nose in the air isn't a good long term business strategy in my eyes.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

If you are wasting time with pidily jobs...you could be blowing off big ones. I have several large customers and they all started with a 4 figure order. I focus on giving the best attention to every order that comes in, and I don't want to drown in BS small work that prevents me from focusing on bigger, more profitable jobs. Could I of missed a big fish who started with a $100? Maybe, but in my experience all those small orders stay small....not all but most. I want to attract and retain one large order over 10 small ones. I dont like turning down $ even small $ that might pay well once... but I know I have to drop those to keep my head in the right game.

 

[James Burke]

Could I of missed a big fish who started with a $100? Maybe, but in my experience all those small orders stay small....not all but most.

They say that big doors swing on little hinges. I've been utterly baffled by what a few small orders have produced over the years. But in all fairness, you're correct to assume that the majority will never amount to much.


JB

 

[Reveal1]

I don't turn down any orders based on their dollar amount. Instead, the customer's self select based on what I charge for the order or the minimum quantity. For example, I will sell you two yard signs, but I have a Flat per order charge and a per sign cost, so ordering one sign would probably be close to what many charge for a 'minimum' $ order and I always point out how they can have a couple of extra signs for just a small amount more. For some items I have a minimum square footage that I present as a way to minimize waste (label orders for example) Most business people understand the need to minimize waste be it for financial, cultural, or environmental reasons. Yes, it's largely perception, but it's easy to appear arrogant about how beneath it is of you to accept those puny orders.

 

[Stallion Signs]

If you are wasting time with pidily jobs...you could be blowing off big ones. I have several large customers and they all started with a 4 figure order. I focus on giving the best attention to every order that comes in, and I don't want to drown in BS small work that prevents me from focusing on bigger, more profitable jobs. Could I of missed a big fish who started with a $100? Maybe, but in my experience all those small orders stay small....not all but most. I want to attract and retain one large order over 10 small ones. I dont like turning down $ even small $ that might pay well once... but I know I have to drop those to keep my head in the right game.

I think I would have to agree with him on this one. Of course, this will 100% vary based on your focus and where your end goal is but at the end of the day, there are always some small jobs that although profitable on a % basis, are still not worth the time, effort and headache they can cause. I'm of the opinion that sometimes it's better to pass up ten $100 jobs if that time can be spent landing us an over $6/7,000 job.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

To me the game is all about maximizing resource utilization so I take the easy fill in work that is within our scope, nothing annoying or time consuming. Obviously if you are too busy then it is what it is but to turn something down because you want to wait for something better is really just increasing your costs. I make more dollars on big jobs like everyone else but they get in your pocket when you hit a problem, you wait for approvals, design changes etc etc. Your hourly overhead and profit is directly related to how many billable hours you have in a week and jumping from 30 to 40 makes a pretty big difference in the bottom line.

 

[Stacey K]

I used to take on every small job that came in the door. However, with these smaller jobs create a bottleneck for larger jobs, it soon became obvious to me that I need to start saying no to some of them. This is especially true during busy times. I will almost always take on any vehicle, sign etc. as they are the best money makers for me - cut vinyl jobs.

I do have a minimum dollar amount of $25. For some of the tiny jobs I feel might be a pain, I tell them, "I can and will do this if you give me creative freedom" which means we aren't going back and fourth 5 times to pick the perfect font etc. Most people are totally fine with this. I have several lady customers who order a lot of hoodies and tshirts as gifts. They send me a couple picture examples, tell me what color htv and shirt color. I never send a proof, they just trust me to get "as close as possible". These are the best customers and work good as filler jobs for me. I also have some old farmer guys who come in for tractor decals, they know how I operate now and they told their friends so probably next month I'll be doing quite a few decals again, during the slower months LOL Some jobs and people are just fun to work with so they extra time is worth it. It's about enjoyment also. I turned down a 40 year boat stripe removal/install today because it would be hell on my back and fingers...NOT enjoyable LOL

I am curious why you don't do vehicle installs? Cut vinyl is a good money maker for smaller jobs like pick-ups etc. It's my favorite type of work and I make the most money on it.

50% of my jobs are bigger (vehicles, trailers, window 4x8 signs), the rest medium and small. Not many tiny little jobs but I do them.

 

[Pewter0000]

Yeah when we first started or when it was slower, we'd take all sorts of odd little jobs. Now that we're established, we let people know the timeline for smaller gigs and our minimum orders ($50), and what is included and what's not (we used to be a bit more flexible with revisions, but a lot less so now.)

 

[Zendavor Signs]

If you are wasting time with pidily jobs...you could be blowing off big ones. I have several large customers and they all started with a 4 figure order. I focus on giving the best attention to every order that comes in, and I don't want to drown in BS small work that prevents me from focusing on bigger, more profitable jobs. Could I of missed a big fish who started with a $100? Maybe, but in my experience all those small orders stay small....not all but most. I want to attract and retain one large order over 10 small ones. I dont like turning down $ even small $ that might pay well once... but I know I have to drop those to keep my head in the right game.

I agree with this. I don't have a problem with smaller orders, but often those small orders can be very demanding, especially non-commercial work. We have a reasonable minimum order to weed out the non-serious candidates. In the past, we have had many customers that we did smaller vinyl work for, that overlooked us when they had a need for larger work - exterior sign, lighted sign, etc. The ones I asked about would often respond with "Oh, I had no idea you did that type of work, I thought you just did magnets and decals and vinyl signs....." Some of that is poor marketing on our part, but a number of customers simply view a company that cuts boat numbers or does magnets (or other smaller projects) as not capable of doing larger projects. Since we have switched gears over the last 5 years or so, I now see the opposite (we do the lighted sign and customer hires someone else to do the window lettering, etc).

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I agree with this. I don't have a problem with smaller orders, but often those small orders can be very demanding, especially non-commercial work. We have a reasonable minimum order to weed out the non-serious candidates. In the past, we have had many customers that we did smaller vinyl work for, that overlooked us when they had a need for larger work - exterior sign, lighted sign, etc. The ones I asked about would often respond with "Oh, I had no idea you did that type of work, I thought you just did magnets and decals and vinyl signs....." Some of that is poor marketing on our part, but a number of customers simply view a company that cuts boat numbers or does magnets (or other smaller projects) as not capable of doing larger projects. Since we have switched gears over the last 5 years or so, I now see the opposite (we do the lighted sign and customer hires someone else to do the window lettering, etc).

Exactly. I saw the same thing too... they go to the big guys for large orders. So what was I fucking around with your small shit for anyway??? Like a hotgirl that you're nice to and treat like friends but then she goes a fucks someone with no shirt at the bar.

 

[Hal Smith]

I used to take on every small job that came in the door. However, with these smaller jobs create a bottleneck for larger jobs, it soon became obvious to me that I need to start saying no to some of them. This is especially true during busy times. I will almost always take on any vehicle, sign etc. as they are the best money makers for me - cut vinyl jobs.

I do have a minimum dollar amount of $25. For some of the tiny jobs I feel might be a pain, I tell them, "I can and will do this if you give me creative freedom" which means we aren't going back and fourth 5 times to pick the perfect font etc. Most people are totally fine with this. I have several lady customers who order a lot of hoodies and tshirts as gifts. They send me a couple picture examples, tell me what color htv and shirt color. I never send a proof, they just trust me to get "as close as possible". These are the best customers and work good as filler jobs for me. I also have some old farmer guys who come in for tractor decals, they know how I operate now and they told their friends so probably next month I'll be doing quite a few decals again, during the slower months LOL Some jobs and people are just fun to work with so they extra time is worth it. It's about enjoyment also. I turned down a 40 year boat stripe removal/install today because it would be hell on my back and fingers...NOT enjoyable LOL

I am curious why you don't do vehicle installs? Cut vinyl is a good money maker for smaller jobs like pick-ups etc. It's my favorite type of work and I make the most money on it.

50% of my jobs are bigger (vehicles, trailers, window 4x8 signs), the rest medium and small. Not many tiny little jobs but I do them.

Good question, the shop and people I am helping out are not set up anywhere to do vehicles, or installs on vehicles, I am helping them out, but too old and crippled up to do the installs anymore, vehicles was a good niche in our sign shop years ago, good profit, and happy customers, cut vinyl, partial and full wraps. Thanks for your thoughts;

 

[Precision]

We are a 5 year old sign shop, myself, my wife, and 4 employees. I put the money in our web presence, monthly. It's just as important as the rent. We started this a couple of years ago. It saved us and continues to push us forward.

We are receiving about 200 calls a month of all types of projects. I have my license to do non illuminated signage. We contract out all illuminated and electrical signage. Using, a wholesale fabricator install company, for permitting, fabrication and installation. Texas Signmaker's operation sounds much like the company we use.

All the rest we have to use common sense, keep the install calender full, and strategize how to do more with this size operation. Often times price dictates. A minimum may become necessary, at times, usually, for new business only.

If the project appears to be a time suck or non profitable we direct them to several other smaller local operators.

Appreciate all I learn here.Thanks.

 

[Precision]

I'm still trying to learn to use this site - where the delete post button. Duh!
Thx.

 

[CanuckSigns]

We got a large regular client because the company they used previously set in place a $500 minimum order, they order $30,000 -40,000 in gemini plaques and engraved recognition pieces a year, but one time they had a small order that didn't meet the minimum and the previous supplier wouldn't waive the minimum charge for an existing client.

We have been doing their work for 12 years now, and they are good clients to work for, they place 2-3 orders a year with us.