Perfecting The Backlit

[xxtoni]

We've tried perfecting the backlights we do for quite a while now and it has never quite worked out perfectly.

At first we tried doing them with backlight film which was pretty disappointing. After putting up with that for a while we decided to try out banner. To our surprise it was actually a bit better but still nowhere near what we wanted.

In the end the best we managed was actually using canvas. It was by far the best of the 3 but still not as good as we wanted.

As we don't do that many backlits we put the perfectionism aside and just did them on canvas.

Recently though I've been to a sign expo and saw the perfect backlight. The lighting was even, the blacks were pitch black the colors really popped and they were "glowing" from edge to edge, no shadows or anything...it was perfect and now I'm more determined that ever to find out how they are done.

Here are two images of the backlit I saw at the expo:






Here are also some I found online which are awesome as well: http://imgur.com/a/btl8B



So...does anyone know how these are done ?

 

[nikdoobs]

We haven't done any backlits that big yet. We use Vinyl on Acrylic for smaller stuff. Print a double pass on clear vinyl first, then print a single pass on translucent white vinyl. The translucent white will look good during the day (without the backlight) and the double pass ink will allow extra color to shine through so the color will look right when its lit up. The hardest part is lining your prints up perfectly.


http://sdgmag.com/article/specialty-imaging/making-perfect-outdoor-backlit

 

[xxtoni]

We haven't done any backlits that big yet. We use Vinyl on Acrylic for smaller stuff. Print a double pass on clear vinyl first, then print a single pass on translucent white vinyl. The translucent white will look good during the day (without the backlight) and the double pass ink will allow extra color to shine through so the color will look right when its lit up. The hardest part is lining your prints up perfectly.


http://sdgmag.com/article/specialty-imaging/making-perfect-outdoor-backlit

Interesting.

First time that I hear of this.

The way they do it is definitely some kind of fabric but even with the fabric question out of the way there remains the issue of edge to edge lighting and no shadows and even lighting as well.

 

[boxerbay]

it all depends on the printer you are using.

the fabric backlits you see in the photos are done using DYE-SUBLIMATION process. Ink goes into the fabric and creates a denser print. eco-solvent is a thin layer of ink and usually ends up washed out. UV flatbed ink is a bit denser.

it also depends on the light box your client has and how many lumens it is producing. the higher the lumens the brighter the box but also the more saturated your print will need to be to look correct. also, will the lightbox ever be turned off and need to be viewed off? if yes then you will need another copy of the print on film with a regular print layered on the front.

it is a complex item and understanding your printer, the lightbox, and whether it is on all the time or not will lead you in the right direction.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

That is from a company called REXFrame, so far there is only 1 us distributor that I know of. The fabric is a dye sublimated stretch backlit fabric call power stretch backlit.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Contact Fisher textiles, they sell it.

 

[boxerbay]

** OP is in Shargi-La.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

oops... didn't catch that, I'm sure there are some asian manufacturers that make the same type of material... we've only dealt with Fisher.

 

[chafro]

Latex printers are doing the best backlights out there duratrans aside. Especially the Lx850, the smaller printers have a hard time drying prints.

I have seen some awesome UV backlights also.

the secret is to have a quality film and profile. To profile and make a icc you need a transmissive spectrophotometer which are expensive. Barbieri sells some good ones.

 

[xxtoni]

Thanks for all the amazing feedback guys.

So far we've printed them on eco-solvent and I've heard somewhere that they need to be done on sublimation.

I've also done some research and found out that REXFrame sells the profiles and the fabric for these - http://imgur.com/a/btl8B unfortunutely they don't have distribution in Europe so that falls flat.

As far as the light box goes, we do the whole thing. Client orders the finished solution and we make everything from the box to the lighting to the print. We deliver and install the finished product.

Latex is something that is out of the question for us as we don't want to get involved with HP and we're also in Eastern Europe where if you want to be even remotely competitive solvent is the way to go. We'd consider dye-sublimation though if we were to get really serious about the backlights.

Thanks for the input though.

Does anyone know the exact name of the fabric that is used with the dye sublimation process ? I'm hoping that there will be someone that sells it in Europe.

On a different note any ideas how one would go about building a lightbox that would allow for edge to edge illumination with even lighting and no shadows. The problems that we've had so far is that if you make the box 7-10cm deep you have a problem because the edges will leave a big shadow. We have not yet figured out how to do edge-to-edge lighting like in the examples I've provided.

Any ideas ?

 

[J Hill Designs]

there are some pretty amazing shallow-cabinet LED's that have come out over the last few years...

 

[Nishan]

The fabric is called Samba, and available from Berger. It is printed either on UV roll to roll printer. This fabric does not show any white lines when folded. We do this all the time on our durst for backlit. We have latex, solvent and dysub.... nothing can come close to this combination for backlit

 

[gregwallace]

The best process to use for backlit signs in my opinion is called a three-layer white using a vutek printer. Say your print is solid red with white letters. The first layer would be your print on single pass. The second layer would be a flood white. All of the red in the print would be covered with white while the white letters would not. The third layer would be the same as the first- single pass red with white letters. The amazing part about all of this is that vutek flatbed printers can print all three layers at the same time with perfect registration. Your printer probably cant do this. I recently learned about this process and felt like it was a good thread to mention it on. We have a vutek qs2000 but do not have white ink.... sucks.

 

[Nishan]

Color white color, or day night option as Durst refers to it, works well on clear acrylics, or clear vinyl. It is not needed for fabric.

 

[xxtoni]

The best process to use for backlit signs in my opinion is called a three-layer white using a vutek printer. Say your print is solid red with white letters. The first layer would be your print on single pass. The second layer would be a flood white. All of the red in the print would be covered with white while the white letters would not. The third layer would be the same as the first- single pass red with white letters. The amazing part about all of this is that vutek flatbed printers can print all three layers at the same time with perfect registration. Your printer probably cant do this. I recently learned about this process and felt like it was a good thread to mention it on. We have a vutek qs2000 but do not have white ink.... sucks.

That sounds complicated and expensive. We have white ink in our VS-640 and I would never do that even if registration permitted.

Not sure what VUTEK charges for the white ink but knowing the price of their printers...probably a small fortune.

The sublimation route seems to be the way to go. Buying a sublimation printer isn't overkill for us if we decide to go into this, just have to find a fabric supplier in Europe and then either find a profile supplier or figure out how to make the lightbox ourselves.

What does everyone here do for the box to get edge to edge lighting and what do you do for lighting ?