Photos are very 'Red/Magenta' with Flexi 21 Profile for new Epson 80600

[natallica]

Hey Guys,
Just curious for opinions. Long story short, I've gone to Color Management classes and I understand most, if not all the principles and setup to create profiles regarding ink limits and linearization etc. However, since we got this new Epson, and Flexi doesn't seem to care about this printer too much by providing NO profiles whatsoever.

I've created two different profiles for this printer and they both seem to over saturate red or magenta in anything that is actually a photo. Vector graphics seemingly have a terrific vibrancy and the colors are fantastic, but if I send anything with a photo in it, it is way warmer or redder than it should be. My ink limits are pretty good, but this is the first printer we've ran that has Red and Orange ink. My rendering intents for photos are set for 'perceptual' in the RIP and according to my gamut reports, there is virtually no arc in the tails in 'spider view' so I don't think it's too much ink in those channels.

Any ideas on how I can manipulate my profile to still get nice rich colors, but not go overboard on photos with people or objects?

Example below, one is the actual print and the other is a screenshot of the file.

Any help is appreciated, Thx guys
-N8

 

[yannb]

A little bit outdated, but this should help you use many profiles that are available for the 80600:

Setting up Flexi to print with the Epson SC-S X0600 series

 

[Saturn]

A little bit outdated, but this should help you use many profiles that are available for the 80600:

Setting up Flexi to print with the Epson SC-S X0600 series

I tried this... and the setup tech for my 80600 (earlier this year) tried this... no luck for us.

I also tried the Flexi profiler with my i1Pro2 and had the same over the top orange tone on stuff. I spent about a week making profiles and never got anything resembling usable. I had profiled in Flexi for my CMYK Mutoh with great results before, so it was a stressful letdown. Eventually just had to bite the bullet and go with canned profiles in Onyx...

If you come across a trick to toning down that Orange in Flexi, let us know! Likewise if you are actually able to grab any profiles off the Dashboard that actually end up working in Flexi. I think I'm committed to Onyx at this point, but you might ease someone elses some pain and suffering.

 

[tudouqiezi]

I have encountered the same situation as you with 40600 80600 in onyx.

You try switching Epson Workflow

Good luck!

 

[adendo]

Adendo is doing a vClass (Virtual Training Class) on November 30th called "Getting your Best Color with Flexi". The class is taught by Bobby Cagle who is a channel sales manager for Flexi and has over 20 years experience with Flexi and wide format printing. The class is 90 minutes and the cost is $59. You also get a recording of it to review later. You can read all about the class content at https://adendo.com/getting-your-best-color-with-flexi-1/

 

[natallica]

Adendo is doing a vClass (Virtual Training Class) on November 30th called "Getting your Best Color with Flexi". The class is taught by Bobby Cagle who is a channel sales manager for Flexi and has over 20 years experience with Flexi and wide format printing. The class is 90 minutes and the cost is $59. You also get a recording of it to review later. You can read all about the class content at https://adendo.com/getting-your-best-color-with-flexi-1/

Thanks, and I don't want to sound rude by any means, but I've taken several color management classes. I've watched and studied every Flexi webinar available on the subjects of profiling, theories of color, input/output profiles, delta E's, rendering intents, spectros, yada, yada, yada. We just purchased this 20k printer and have spent thousands over the years on Flexi products and subscriptions/upgrades from the days of Flexi 7 up to 21.

I was hopeful that there was someone here on a thread of like-minded users would like to find a solution to the issue without having to buy or spend more money on something else that probably won't address the problem. The sales team at Grimco assured us that Flexi 'played nice' with this series of printer, but from what I've learned so far, Flexi basically has the drivers to print to it ...no profiles whatsoever are available for Flexi and the Epson anywhere that I've found on the web, or on the Epson Dashboard.
Unless someone there at Adendo has 'pull' with SAi and could request that they can make a few profiles for us users out here that are struggling with this color issue...or better yet, just do a free webinar on Using Flexi Color Profiler for Epsons with a CMYKLmLcOR inkset.

Like I mentioned before, I really don't want to come off as a douche, but after throwing beaucoup money at this and everyday, still fighting it.
It's just a little retarded. I'm of the opinion this kind of info should be free and readily available for us in the industry, or something is at least provided by the manufacturers and developers of the tech that we buy.

Just a little bitter that our 6 year old Oki W64s prints nicer photos than a 9 color Epson.

-N8

 

[ColorCrest]

Any ideas

Because you're not using the recommended Epson workflow, you've chosen to walk the bleeding edge. From your color management classes you should remember that troubleshooting requires removing all the variables you can afford and not be shy about it.

That first step is printing the Flexi printer control image while choosing the options to print with all profiles off. This removes the variables of your workflow settings coming into the process and any suspect settings from any ICC output profile creation process by any third party, including Flexi themselves.

Make a print of the control image with, and without, the printing using ICC color management and post of photo of the two prints side by side.

 

[Neil]

Can you make just a CMYK profile?
It will mean you have to chose either/or depending whether the image has photo's and/or vibrant red vectors.

Does Flexi profiler know you are using orange and red?
When you print your targets, is it using the orange and red?

When you print the (new) cmyk profile targets, compare them to see if your previous targets were any different in the reds.
If not, then it just used cmyk to print them and now is adding orange and red to the mix when you print an image.
(I'm not sure of any of this, just throwing out a theory)

 

[natallica]

Can you make just a CMYK profile?
It will mean you have to chose either/or depending whether the image has photo's and/or vibrant red vectors.

Does Flexi profiler know you are using orange and red?
When you print your targets, is it using the orange and red?

When you print the (new) cmyk profile targets, compare them to see if your previous targets were any different in the reds.
If not, then it just used cmyk to print them and now is adding orange and red to the mix when you print an image.
(I'm not sure of any of this, just throwing out a theory)

Yeah, when I built the profile I selected CMYKLmLcOR Color Mode.
I may try going deeper into the color mode settings and see if I can cut back on the values for those 2 channels, or delve back into the profile and limit those to see if that helps somewhat.

 

[natallica]

Because you're not using the recommended Epson workflow, you've chosen to walk the bleeding edge. From your color management classes you should remember that troubleshooting requires removing all the variables you can afford and not be shy about it.

That first step is printing the Flexi printer control image while choosing the options to print with all profiles off. This removes the variables of your workflow settings coming into the process and any suspect settings from any ICC output profile creation process by any third party, including Flexi themselves.

Make a print of the control image with, and without, the printing using ICC color management and post of photo of the two prints side by side.

What is the 'recommended Epson workflow'?
We currently run Flexi 21 and also have an Onyx 21 Production House upgrade. The Epson didn't come with any kind of RIP/Print software (besides Gama Print which is featureless compared to what we currently have)

-N8

 

[natallica]

This has got to be the first time I've seen a post of "too red" vs "why do my reds look like doodoo"

FWIW, I think there are a couple of the guys at adendo that work for, or previously worked at SAi, though whether they have pull or not is anybody's guess. Here's one guy's profile, and if it were me, the chance to absolutely unload face to face with an individual at a company that has been driving me nuts is well worth the per minute cost.

Aaron Clapp

3D Routed Signs, EnRoute, Flexi, Flexi Designer

app.adendo.com

HA, true.
It does sound odd. Usually reds and oranges for us were a PITA to hit... but now it seems like it's a case of 'careful what you wish for'. It went from one extreme to the other. Just trying to find a happy medium.

 

[ColorCrest]

What is the 'recommended Epson workflow'?

Game Print for starters and especially for those inexperienced with color management.

From your previous CM courses you should have been exposed to the notion that one can test ICC output profiles by using Photoshop with its soft proofing and "Convert to Profile" features without expending costs of consumables if the profile exhibits flaws in preview. Because you've created a multichannel output profile, you might see the same reddish bias by invoking the advanced option of Convert to Profile. In your case, I recommend creating a simple CMYK profile as starters. Also know you can have any of your RIPS share any ICC output profiles on the machine, at least for troubleshooting.

Since you seem to have the tools to generate profiles and you say you understand ink and linearization setup, I'm not understanding why you're looking for 3rd party ICC output profiles which would likely not share the calibration of your particular machine.