Please read if your are considering Arlon GTX

[Flame]

Alright, so I am doing this as a informational post only. We do a lot of intermediate vinyl decals, from temp. stickers to door decals. After speaking with a supplier on here, we decided to switch from oracal to Arlon GTX 4560.

First impression... not bad! The black blocks out color great, it has air release, it printed nice, and price was affordable. We still some other vinyl, but all and all, really liked the GTX so used that as the backbone of our general decal printing.

Now, we no longer use GTX due to a couple jobs coming back. Some customers swore by the stuff, some... said there was lifting. So we now use Oracal exclusively. But it's gotten worse... now, I am seeing a LOT of jobs coming back. And it's leaving that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Had a 14' trailer come in, 20 month old graphic job, all of decals are peeling up, some places almost 3"! Had a van come in (mind you, we only use intermediate if it's a pretty flat surface), several letters fell off, graphics peeling everywhere. Had a sign come back that was just peeling apart, 16 months old. A large hood decal we applied to a PERFECTLY flat hood, all the edges had shrunk by about 3/4", little over a year old. 2' x 6' temp sign, sealed edges, year and a half old, decals are peeled away from edge and flipped up, allowing water to collect.

What the problem is I do not know, we have some customers who haven't had a single issue, even one guy who had decals on the inside of a hood, a few inches away from a running engine. But the number of jobs coming back is flat out alarming enough I figure I needed to share what has been happening. It is not user error, I have printed hundreds of roll of media before, and I know how to apply graphics. It is not due to outgassing (the myth...), as I know both vehicles mentioned above, the graphics sat for atleast a day or two before I got around to laminating them. Plenty of time to "cure".

My opinion, Arlon has some serious issues to work out with their 4560 GTX. As of the moment I cannot suggest to ANYONE to use this material, as any money I may have saved by switching to it I have now lost tenfold over by having to replace the vinyl on numerous jobs.

 

[strypguy]

I'm glad I waited to try it. Had a supplier try to get me to drop oracal for that stuff. Haven't read many good things about it.

On the other hand, i've had very little problems with any oracal products i've used. I just started using 3551 on some flat trailers and it is awesome imho. Their 3651 is a great cal vinyl as well.

Oracal is my only brand right now and I don't see any reason to change at this point.

John

 

[300mphGraphics]

What laminate were you using with that, 3420?

 

[TheSnowman]

That's not real assuring since I had you print some stuff for me, and I believe it was on that. Do you have a warranty!?

 

[BigfishDM]

I have never in over 10 years ever heard an account like the Arlon Vinyls, they always switch back to the good stuff. Thank god I learned early in my career to stay away from arlon, also Hexis and especially Avery now that were on the subject. Thanks for saving alot of people some major headaches and Im sorry you have to go through that nightmare now.

 

[cajun312]

I've used a lot of the 4560GTX and have had zero problems with it. I don't use it on trailers or vehicles, that is what cast vinyl is for.

 

[Flame]

That's not real assuring since I had you print some stuff for me, and I believe it was on that. Do you have a warranty!?

Guess I'll have to be replacing some of the stuff, just keep an eye out. Like I said, some stuff has been fine. Others, not so...

 

[SE SignSupply]

Do you happen to have a Mimaki?

 

[Flame]

Do you happen to have a Mimaki?

1204 ValueJet, oem inks.

 

[Gino]

I have no idea if this has anything to do with it, but before digital printing.... it was always said.... Never Use Calendared for Outside Long Term Signs or Any Vehicular jobs.

Jump to years later and we find people using media that was never intended for certain applications.... using it or worse yet, being told to use it by their vendors. Are we living in a world where we speak the talk but don't pay any attention to it for our own specific use ??

Seems to me, the digital media is even more temperamental and we're still experimenting with less than 50/50 results sometimes.

Basically the only jobs we've had fail were those connected to A V E R Y .

Had some other failures here and there far and few between, but it was almost always something we didn't do correctly. Maybe we had a new guy or someone thought someone else cleaned something, but seldom is it the manufacturer's fault. Again, we generally only use what the job calls for and don't cut any corners... regardless of what some unknowing employee behind a desk tells us.

 

[LarryB]

I also made the mistake of using Arlon on vehicle graphics. Mostly were for flat panel applications like cargo vans. Within 6 months the vinyl was falling off the vehicle and leaving grey adhesive behind. I have had probably half a dozen come back and had to redo the jobs with 3M for peace of mind.

On flat panel and box trucks I have had good luck with Oracal 3165RA and 210 overlam. No issues whatsoever.

 

[hydo1]

We have been using Arlon 4560 GT (non-air release) for a few years and have had zero problems. We don't use it for vehicle graphics, only flat sign faces (mdo, dibond, cor-x, etc). We use a Colorspan UV printer and generally don't laminate the prints.

 

[Flame]

Are we living in a world where we speak the talk but don't pay any attention to it for our own specific use ??

We only use this for flat surfaces and signs made to last 3-5 years. Which is in accordance to what the manufactuer suggests using this media for.

We had failures in under 2 years.

 

[TheSnowman]

See if they will stand behind it.

 

[gbarker]

Never had it come back as a failure but I stopped using it for other reasons. When contour cutting, the adhesive won't cut all the way. There were always little fingers of adhesive in the cut. Also try removing some of it. The vinyl will separate from the adhesive and leave you with a black sticky mess. HORRIBLE to remove!

 

[Flame]

The vinyl will separate from the adhesive and leave you with a black sticky mess. HORRIBLE to remove!

One of the main reasons I initially stopped using it.

 

[ProWraps]

user error.

wrong materials for the job. its a permanent calendared media.

 

[Flame]

user error.

wrong materials for the job. its a permanent calendared media.

Permanent calendared on a flat surface... mmhmmm, tells ya right there's its going to peel right off eh?

This has peeled off of vehicles, signs and even a sheet of aluminum...

 

[SE SignSupply]

I do not speak for Arlon. However, I can say that we have sold thousands of rolls of Arlon products since 1990. Arlon makes a great product and stands behind it. We have had a handful of issues over the years which Arlon ALWAYS took care of. In my opinion, it's not the issues you have, it's how you handle them that makes a good company great.

As far as GTX goes: The only laminate Arlon specs with this product is 3220. We have seen failures when the product is stretched and over-used for a calendered media. Also, Mimaki ink seems to destroy the adhesive when laminated too fast.

Our failures have been few and far between, even when the product was over-used Arlon replaced it. If your not getting the same service I would guess it's the vendor you purchase from, not Arlon.

In any event, sorry to hear about the problems some have had.

Ryan

 

[Charlie J]

I've been using it for some time now, I've had it pull out of channels on chevy vans, but I've never had the problems you are describing. I've used it on fleets of tow trucks, short run decals and many other purposes.