Plywood Outdoor Sign

[commercial press]

I have to make a small outdoor sign 2' x 4', the customer wants me to use plywood and paint it to match her paint on the wall(we have the paint), and apply printed vinyl to the sign. My question is what is the best plywood to use for this? I am assuming a smooth surface is best for the vinyl to lay down on....any ideas?
Thanks in advance!

 

[J Hill Designs]

MDO - sign grade

 

[Mosh]

+MDO. DO NOT use laytex paint. Vinyl won't stay on it very well. Must be new at this?

 

[commercial press]

Thanks!

Yes, been doing vinyl for about a year, been applying mostly to aluminum and vehicles. Thanks for the info!

 

[TimToad]

+MDO. DO NOT use laytex paint. Vinyl won't stay on it very well. Must be new at this?

+

The only way I've found to get a print to stick to latex is to apply the 3M 94 Primer which we'll usually only do if we're applying our print on an interior wall.

 

[eahicks]

If you're printing vinyl anyway, print an entire overlay, matching her paint color for the background or whatever that paint color is used for.

 

[OldPaint]

1ST OFF............YOU NEED TO LEARN...........never ever put a sign on PLYWOOD!!!!!!!!! i had people bring me pieces of PLYWOOD to put a sign on....AND I WILL NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!
IF......your gona stay in this line of work.......YOU need to get familiar with materials for signs.
MDO is sign grade outdoor sorta plywood. but mad to LAST LONGER.
ALUMI CORE..... will also work for what the customer wants.
PAINTING.......... to match the building...........DO NOT USE THE BUILDING PAINT...... either on the MDO or ALUMI CORE!!!!
do you know how to spray paint? if not do you know a auto body guy? take a sample of the building paint to him.........let him match the color and spray paint either the MDO or ALUMICORE.
you could also do this on .040 or .060 aluminum, if it gona go on the wall.

 

[Mosh]

Why not use aluminum and print the whole thing?

 

[J Hill Designs]

words, mostly capitalized

MDO is plywood OP

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Make no sense to put vinyl on MDO be oil or gloss latex painted since MDO is costly to say the least & only last if weather is good

Today with BE BOND so low cost I would use that & add treated plywood for backing if needed, everything will last longer & look alot better.

MDO was a main product for graphics for me till BE BOND came out under $40 for one sided & ready, while MDO is over $60 for 1/2" one sided primed

 

[TimToad]

Make no sense to put vinyl on MDO be oil or gloss latex painted since MDO is costly to say the least & only last if weather is good

Today with BE BOND so low cost I would use that & add treated plywood for backing if needed, everything will last longer & look alot better.

MDO was a main product for graphics for me till BE BOND came out under $40 for one sided & ready, while MDO is over $60 for 1/2" one sided primed

Do you mean DiBond?

I have a few objections to DiBond being considered the "replacement" for MDO or aluminum panels. For one, the $40 DiBond material is only rated for four years outside durability, whereas I've seen well done MDO signs last triple that and maybe only need a freshening up. I've seen more than my share of unsupported or improperly installed DiBond signs get that telltale wobble or wave to them after the UV and the elements start to eat up the inner core. I also hate the lack of depth in DiBond projects unless it is laminated to another substrate. The aluminum on the cheap stuff is just so thin and IMO cheap looking when used without any backing or depth added that I consider it the new coroplast.

Give me a nice .063 Aluminum pan face with 2" deep returns and I could easily forget about either MDO or DiBond. At least for simple rectangles going up on walls.

 

[Gino]

Very good responses so far.

If the OP has to use the customer's paint and she wants plywood, like mentioned, MDO, originally known as Duraply is indeed plywood. It has far less voids or holes than traditional plywood, but it's a much higher grade. Therefore, it is easy to prep the edges and as small as that thing is, just roller the paint on. To make the vinyl stick, just give the paint a final two coats of clear coat [sheen to your liking] and all will be fine.



edit :

As for the wood lasting so much longer.... what for ?? The printed vinyl won't last much more than 5 years anyway.

I had duraply signs outside for 25 years and only showed some signs of brush strokes, but when using vinyl, no matter how well you prep and make your sign, the vinyl is gonna disintegrate in a few years. That was always one of my questions about digital printing. These manufacturers says it's a 10 year vinyl..... So What ?? The print's only gonna last 1/2 that, so why make the background outlast the copy ??

 

[SignManiac]

Never let customer dictate what materials to use. Educate her about better material choices and you will both be better off.

 

[Gino]

Ya know, I was agreeing with ya in my head 1,000%, but then Pat posted his take and I hafta admit.......... most of the people on here are barely any smarter than the customers. While some of us have a plethora of things from which to pull, most here are just a step or two ahead of the end-user. I'd bet the vast majority of them are p!ssed off EX-customers and decided to go their own route. No disrespect to the membership here, but we are 101-ers, huh ?? Give me an A-MEN brotha.........

Someone a while back had a thread going about educating the sign people and giving them certifications and stuff. While that won't happen, it does take time to educate yourself before one can educate the customer.



Perhaps there's a way to do this and maybe have a chapter a month take place with a school room atmosphere and we all take turns teaching or taking on some approach to the sign industry. No videos no How to's or Look at me kinda stuff, but discussions with questions & answers. No tests needed. You move along at your own pace. However, if someone comes in late, just like in college, it's up to them to catch up by reading. No frickin' shortcuts for anyone for any reason. Wanna cheat, PM someone and get the answer if you must.

We used to do this at sign meets and swaps and we called it round table discussions. They would sometimes last 2 or 3 days. People took turns explaining while younger people would ask questions and the elders [so to speak] would offer up great advice. It would get talked to death for maybe hours, but in the end, lotsa people had a handle on a lot more than when they came in.

I know with the internet it's hard to keep things in order, but it can work. If we did it with the several committees we had here years ago behind the scenes, we can certainly do this in the open. Maybe Fred would have some insight on how to set this up..... that is, if anyone is interested. I don't think it will be talks about how to fix a fuse in a printer or find a font, but more on the fundamentals of the sign world in general.

Anyone interested ??

 

[TimToad]

Very good responses so far.

If the OP has to use the customer's paint and she wants plywood, like mentioned, MDO, originally known as Duraply is indeed plywood. It has far less voids or holes than traditional plywood, but it's a much higher grade. Therefore, it is easy to prep the edges and as small as that thing is, just roller the paint on. To make the vinyl stick, just give the paint a final two coats of clear coat [sheen to your liking] and all will be fine.



edit :

As for the wood lasting so much longer.... what for ?? The printed vinyl won't last much more than 5 years anyway.

I had duraply signs outside for 25 years and only showed some signs of brush strokes, but when using vinyl, no matter how well you prep and make your sign, the vinyl is gonna disintegrate in a few years. That was always one of my questions about digital printing. These manufacturers says it's a 10 year vinyl..... So What ?? The print's only gonna last 1/2 that, so why make the background outlast the copy ??

I still do an occasional MDO sign with paint, cut vinyl or a combination of both. Any of which will last 10 years. Sure, digitally printed vinyl doesn't have a long outdoor life, but high performance vinyl that is rated at 10 years should last at least close to that.

Now, does it make sense to put 10 year vinyl on a substrate whose outdoor rating is only four years like the cheap DiBond material? That's a very valid and good question, my friend.

 

[Gino]

I still do an occasional MDO sign with paint, cut vinyl or a combination of both. Any of which will last 10 years. Sure, digitally printed vinyl doesn't have a long outdoor life, but high performance vinyl that is rated at 10 years should last at least close to that.

Now, does it make sense to put 10 year vinyl on a substrate whose outdoor rating is only four years like the cheap DiBond material? That's a very valid and good question, my friend.

Well, we do a lot of MDO boards yet with paint, die cut vinyl and digitally printed vinyl. I think if you go back and read the OP's request, it's about putting digitally printed vinyl on a small painted piece of plywood.

I was answering his question and not a newly developed scenario. So for you, yes, die-cut vinyl on a painted piece of plywood can last 10 years easily. Hand painted, not so much anymore, cause the paint these days is like snot. No coverage whatsoever. I still say the vinyl companies bought the stock in paint and had it ruined to sell more vinyl, but that's a totally different discussion for a different day.

As for your question, nothing makes any sense anymore, cause EVERYTHING has built in obsolescence in it today. Nothing is made to last. Nothing anywhere in any business or line of products. If you work with something and doctor it and baby it to work, then you'll get a good product, but the majority of people on this forum, don't know how and don't wanna charge the extra bucks it's gonna take to provide.

Take for instance Maniac's statement. He can do and make the products which will last cause he knows fully well how to do it with not just one or two products, but probably just about anything. He's a seasoned veteran in this trade and has experience in more things that the average joe, let alone these people asking such questions like this. It's quite evident, these people can't do it and don't have the first clue as to how to educate someone to a finer product. They are taking baby steps, and if they hem & haw about things they don't know anything about, they'll lose the sale for sure. Talking here about how to do something is not gonna make this OP's sale go any smoother. Confusing him with all the sign jargon isn't doing a thing for him. He needs concrete answers and he needs them quickly.

Any arguing over which way a top notch shop would do this is fine and dandy, but it's still not gonna help this guy, so my valid question to you is who are we helping ?? The OP...... someone down the road...... or ourselves ??

 

[Fred Weiss]

Perhaps there's a way to do this and maybe have a chapter a month take place with a school room atmosphere and we all take turns teaching or taking on some approach to the sign industry. No videos no How to's or Look at me kinda stuff, but discussions with questions & answers. No tests needed. You move along at your own pace. However, if someone comes in late, just like in college, it's up to them to catch up by reading. No frickin' shortcuts for anyone for any reason. Wanna cheat, PM someone and get the answer if you must.

We used to do this at sign meets and swaps and we called it round table discussions. They would sometimes last 2 or 3 days. People took turns explaining while younger people would ask questions and the elders [so to speak] would offer up great advice. It would get talked to death for maybe hours, but in the end, lotsa people had a handle on a lot more than when they came in.

I know with the internet it's hard to keep things in order, but it can work. If we did it with the several committees we had here years ago behind the scenes, we can certainly do this in the open. Maybe Fred would have some insight on how to set this up..... that is, if anyone is interested. I don't think it will be talks about how to fix a fuse in a printer or find a font, but more on the fundamentals of the sign world in general.

Anyone interested ??

The Classroom Assignments forum comes to mind, or you could use any forum that matches the topic or I can open a new forum and name it Roundtable Discussions.

 

[Jillbeans]

I used exterior grade plywood exclusively for signs from 1985-2005.
I am a traditional sign painter. It lasted longer than MDO.
I sealed the edges, primed, painted with latex house paint...until I got a plotter and discovered that cut vynull does not stick to latex.
I switched to 1-shot or Ronan for the background.
But I started using factory-finished MDO via N Glantz because it looked so nice. I still sealed the edges and repainted it.
About 5 years ago I switched over to using Alumalite for almost all exterior signs.
I would never go back to plywood.
Got my first B-Bond via Glantz last month...it's the t!ts, man.
The price is nice and it has an almost a semi-gloss/smooth matte finish.
Anyway, for what you are doing, I would do as suggested and just print it and use the B-Bond or even Alumalite with edge caps.
I still use the factory finished MDO for hand painted novelty signs.
Love....Jill
PS
Yup try to never let the customer dictate what you use...you are supposed to be the professional.

 

[Gino]

The Classroom Assignments forum comes to mind, or you could use any forum that matches the topic or I can open a new forum and name it Roundtable Discussions.

Can we get a few like minded people together and discuss the possibilities ?? I'm only a freebie member here and to put some kinda theme together, it might go better not in the open, yet. Is there a way to do this ??

I can contact some people I feel needed and maybe some other people could do it, too.

We just hafta commit, to whomever is in this....WE ALL GET ALONG !! FIGHTING - BICKERING - and EGOS ARE NOT PERMITTED.... or this will fail immediately. ​

 

[Gino]

I think this is the main thing.... we all know what happens when you put a bunch of experts in a room. You know what they say about opinions....they're like.... how does that go again?

I think you're on to something though. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

You're definitely in. You have more than you know to contribute. It's not about experts or anything like that. It's about all of us and those that are serious minded. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians won't do it. We're talking about common sense, how to's and business. Anyone wanting to learn how to run a printer, step by step learning of software or how to fix a wire deep down inside your equipment, keep using the forum as is. We're gonna go to the next level with sign people. We just need to iron out a few minor details, first to make sure we're all on the same page.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

BE BOND is from N. Glantz ........ never used DiBond so do not know, used Alumalite before but like BE BOND better besides price, MDO is great but here in the SE ..Central Florida 2 things we have plenty of rain & sun combine it with sand & some salty air you have ..if outside it will tear up & fall apart, fad away & rot no matter what.

The reason I use Be Bond is simple, no priming, no background white needed, aluminium lasts longer then wood I have several signs of both up from years past & the MDO signs have been repainted because background failure at that point wood rot will set in if not taken care of & fall off building is possible Be Bond mounts are the concern after rust sets in & that takes alot longer, if I or customer wants a thicker look & image I can sell the customer on that

Here in Orlando the digital industry took over back in 85 & pricing fell like a rock in water & somewhat has made a slow climb I can get vinyl printed or cut cheaper retail then wholesale in most cases, I bid a fair price with good materials etc. & lose to cheap materials poor design & at a cut rate price more often than not & I hand paint 95% of my work

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

You're definitely in. You have more than you know to contribute. It's not about experts or anything like that. It's about all of us and those that are serious minded. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians won't do it. We're talking about common sense, how to's and business. Anyone wanting to learn how to run a printer, step by step learning of software or how to fix a wire deep down inside your equipment, keep using the forum as is. We're gonna go to the next level with sign people. We just need to iron out a few minor details, first to make sure we're all on the same page.

I'd be very interested in the round table discussions as well.