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Pondering the old sign “painter” days…

Jeff

New Member
One of my mentors shared stories of working in a multiple sign painter shop. When hand lettering one of many fleet vehicles he would leave a top or bottom leg of an E shorter than the rest or drop the cross stroke of an A down more than the others. So when he would see one of the vehicles out-and-about, he would know which ones he lettered.

I did this a few times back when I worked at Avery Sign Co.

I’m just sharing memories before they’re gone.:rolleyes:

Jeff
 

OldPaint

New Member
STILL.....at my age (69) NOTHING is better then having a blank slate before you, pick up a pencil/stabelo .....do a light sketch of something/letters/graphic.........and make it COME ALIVE....with a brush and paint))))))
for most of old timers it was never about the money(which was a lot better pay then some i see here getting paid)but the fact that WE COULD...... do this with ease..........IT WAS NEVER WORK..........but fun everyday))))))))))))))))))))
most of us(old brush guys)were nothing but 4 year olds.........in an aging body))))) remember how much fun you had at 4........with some paint and crayons?????
THAT THE FEELING........ we get when we paint)))))))))))
 

TimToad

Active Member
There was always that certain rush when I nailed a free form script or had done what I considered the perfect "chrysler" or casual stroke line of text using nothing more than a single stabilo line if even that. In Chicago back then, you could drive down the streets and know who did what work by the signature casual or script fonts that someone had done.

My biggest worry now in regards top the "good 'ol days" being lost is that even amongst our brethren here, I see a level of nitpicking and "know it allism" that if one of us dared dropped a crossbar on an A, or shortened a midstroke on an E now, we'd get hammered for days in these forums.

Unlike most other craft trades, we produce the tangible from the intanglible and with that ability comes ego, which can get in the way of perspective from time to time.
 

CES020

New Member
I was walking through a junk yard the other day, looking for a part for a vehicle and ran across this truck. You can see he had his own style of lettering too. I'm sure you'd know his work anywhere.

Well, wait, maybe he wrecked the truck while going to the store to get more paint to finish the second side :)

door.JPG door1.JPG door2.JPG
 

Ponto

New Member
Still brings a smile to my face when I recall quietly walking by the sign writers at their easel,... and drop a 4' straight edge on the cement floor--------LOL--------..........

JP
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
A lot of well seasoned sign writers that studied the work of others, never needed to purposely tweak a character or two in order to recognize their own work or the work of others. I worked with a master who could look at a sign and quite often name the guy that did the work. It could be something so subtle as the top of an 'S' or a slight curve in a straight stroke on a particular letter. He shocked me one morning with a comment/critique regarding a truck he had seen, that I had lettered ...one of my moonlight projects.
He had recognized my work by a couple subtle strokes. To this day, I can usually recognize his work.
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Ahhhhh, the good ol' days of sign painting...

I remember my first mentor... he worked at a local
theme park, I had a huge crush on his daughter. Anyway
he was a really good sign painter, and a patient instructor.
He moved away taking the daughter with him.

Several years after my wife and I separated, I decided to
look up that girl... the years had not been kind to her...

There are somethings that should be left to nostalgia...
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
Here's a true story that was written today by an 'Old School' Signwriter friend, John Long. It really brings back grand memories for me.

My dad taught me almost everything he knew about the sign business. I learned more from working with other sign painters and then expanded my overall knowledge of the business after vinyl came into popularity. When I turned 18, I was literally "traded" like a baseball player to work at a large electric shop so that I could learn all about neon, plexiglass, metal working, sheet metal fabrication, channel letter manufacturing, welding, etc.
A few weeks ago I was asked if I still had the basic union test for journeyman sign painters or had any of the information that my dad used to train his apprentices. While I can't find the "test" yet, I do have a lot of dad's writings on the different aspects of proper sign painting, building, installing, etc.
Although I don't have the paperwork "in hand", I do know that he had some sort of written syllabus on which subjects to cover and at what time in the apprentices' training to introduce each aspect of the trade. I can offer this however... my memory (for what it's worth). So here goes...
The typical apprenticeship was designed to last about 6 years and then you received your journey level test.
For me it started with cleaning the shop. Floor sweeping, tool organizing, and then I learned the proper care and maintenance of brushes. (cleaning wasn't just for me to keep busy and clean the shop, it literally helped familiarize me with all the tools and brushes). I also learned shop safety at this time, fire hazards etc.
Once I had mastered the fine art of cleaning brushes, I was able to move on to actual lettering... but just strokes. Basic stuff that almost any lettering book shows you at first. Verticals, horizontals, diagonals and curves. Then you move on to piecing those together to make letters and practice lettering the same letter over and over. I can remember lettering over 100 "S's" before I got a "Hey, you got the hang of it! I'm proud of you! Now let's try some basic words." If this were a "normal" instruction of an apprentice I would imagine this would be the time they taught proper use of a mahl stick, but my dad had this thing against them. In hindsight I wish I had learned with one.
For words, I jumped back and forth from a lettering quill and paint to a Speedball pen and ink on paper. During this time I was learning about the different materials used to make signs.
The next step was pin striping, scroll work and borders. For the pinstripe lesson all I did was stripe straight lines about a 1/4 inch apart on our sliding glass patio doors until they looked consistent. We didn't do a lot of fancy pin striping on cars, but we had to learn it because it does come in handy for fine
borders, etc.
Then I moved on to what we used to call the "basic alphabets", Gothic, Roman, Script, and tried to master lettering those by building up the letters with the appropriate size brush. Next came the casual lettering. During that time he also covered letter spacing, line spacing, margins, and rules about how many different colors and or letter styles are appropriate for a good looking layout, etc.
Then I graduated to single stroke lettering (one stroke as some call it) and I also learned the rules for thick and thin strokes and script, like never placing script on an arc.
Then we covered layouts, thumbnail sketches and color theory, your basic color wheel stuff.
Then I moved on to wood signs which involves gluing up slabs, routing, the very basics of hand carved letters, and sandblasted signs.
Then pattern making with a wheel and Electro-pounce. I also learned truck lettering, window lettering, and the basics of gilding.
Then I learned the finer points of surface gilding, glass gilding basics, and truck gilding.
Next was show cards and screen printing techniques. Just the very basics of screen printing though, because at that time you could order screen printed signs so cheap you would be crazy to do them in-house.
Then wall signs from a grid and patterns, billboards and mural/pictorial painting. (I did wall signs before gilding, but not by myself)
I think if a person masters each aspect, to the best of their ability, and in this basic order, then they would have a much easier time learning this trade.
The craziest part about my personal story with my dad is that he started me at the ripe old age of 11 and I was a journey level sign painter before the age of 16. I was actually being driven to jobs, dropped off and completing the entire sign job by myself and then calling my dad to come pick me up and collect the check because I wasn't old enough to drive. After I turned 14, we got so busy that I was going to school and also working a 40+ hour week just to keep the signs going out the door.
Sometimes I tell my story to people and I can see disbelief in their eyes, and I totally get it because sometimes I look back and can't believe I was able to accomplish all that at that young age either. Except for this one thing.... My dad was a truly exceptional man. He kept pushing me, and pulling me along with so many words of encouragement, even though at times they seemed harsh, they were always just what I needed at the time. But I wasn't the only man he trained. There are at least five other men out there that owe their entire career and livelihood to my dad as well.
 

SignManiac

New Member
I read a book by E. C. Matthews, and became an accidental sign painter. It was like smokin crack. Never had the luxury of working in a shop and learning from a master. Ended up being self taught. Expensive way to learn but I managed to get the hang of it.
 

SignManiac

New Member
It was I read it around 1974 and most of the info on materials was antequated. But the lettering strokes and fonts, along with some basic layouts, gave me enough to go by. I am so happy I learned old school first. It really laid the groundwork for what I do today. I feel privedged to have spanned a forty year career from the days of painting, to the technology available today...
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
It was  I read it around 1974 and most of the info on materials was antequated. But the lettering strokes and fonts, along with some basic layouts, gave me enough to go by. I am so happy I learned old school first. It really laid the groundwork for what I do today. I feel privedged to have spanned a forty year career from the days of painting, to the technology available today...

:thumb: Smokin the Crack of the 'Sign Gods'! ...and still making them smile! ...and we get paid for having fun!!!
 

SignManiac

New Member
Most people dream of putting in twenty years and retiring. I've been lucky to get paid forty years to have fun every day. My life has been a success even if I didn't get rich monetarily. Find your passion in life, consider yourself a very lucky man!
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
Most people dream of putting in twenty years and retiring. I've been lucky to get paid forty years to have fun every day. My life has been a success even if I didn't get rich monetarily. Find your passion in life, consider yourself a very lucky man!

A 'Romance' that never ends!
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
The "good" old days,
I can remember apprenticing for my father in our automotive shop, pre OSHA EPA enforcement.
We did everything from paint and body, AC installation, mechanical repairs & rust proofing.
Part of the rust proofing process involved drilling 1/2” holes in the door jams (to allow a spray wand access to the inner body welds) with a huge handheld electric drill that had aluminum grab handles & motor barrel about as large as a 3 pound coffee can.
Standing there on the wet floor (floors were always wet to keep the dust down and out of the paint) barefooted - having the drill short out – locking my hands to the handle so I couldn’t throw it off to get it to stop shocking me. Finally wrapping the cord around my legs (spinning around uncontrollably) enough to pull the cord from the wall.

From there I moved to the undercoating side.
This involved airless spraying a thick black tar-like coating under the entire underside and inner fenders of the vehicles.
We didn’t have a full post lift – we used air operated axel jack that could tilt a vehicle up to about 30 degrees from the rear.
I had to get down on a creeper to shoot the front end still on the ground and by the end of the day would be completely covered in rust proofing.
We bought pallets of kerosene or diesel in 55 gallon drums to clean the overspray off vehicles & installers.
Good times showing up to school the next day with the kerosene/diesel fumes in my hair still strong enough to make my classmates eyes water.

And then there was the time I overhauled my first automatic transmission by myself. It was out of an old Dodge stationwagon (TorqueFlite 727).
Used a bumper jack to lift the back of the wagon as high as the jack would go and then lowered the tranny out by wedging myself between the tranny and the floor. Dropped the last bolt out – had it sit down on my chest pinning me there as all the fluid from the torque converter drained out onto my head. Child protective services had not yet come to the island.
I was pretty happy when we bought a TrimLine franchise and I got to work in the graphics & striping side of the business.

wayne k
guam usa
 

OldPaint

New Member
Standing there on the wet floor (floors were always wet to keep the dust down and out of the paint) barefooted - having the drill short out – locking my hands to the handle so I couldn’t throw it off to get it to stop shocking me. Finally wrapping the cord around my legs (spinning around uncontrollably) enough to pull the cord from the wall.
NOW................THAT EXPLAINS A LOT of why you ......IS......like you are))))))))HAHAHAHAHAH
GOT A FUNNY ONE.... just a little more unbelievable.
right after i had my defib/pacemaker installed...........i saw a kiln for sale on craiglist, and called the owner. afterward i told i would come pick it up, but i was able to lift anything and i would bring some help with me to move it. she tells me her husband has had one of these defib/pacers for a while now.
went to pick up the kiln, got to met the husband. hes a 20year retired navy chief. got to talin bout the device in our chest..and i asked if his ever went off him.............NOW it gets good))))
her and him are telling the story.........so he tells me he went into his little garage one day after having the difb/pacer put in. he decideds to run the house floor vacuum .........on the garage floor. now most us know..........home floor vacs are NOT made to pick up water))))) hes runnin the vac it hits the water....he gets nailed with 110V............that in turn sets of the DIFB.....knocks him on his ***!!!! well.....he gathers himself up, makes it into the living room, plops into his chair......and recovers from the shock and the hit from the difb. NOW HIS WIFE picks up the story...hes to embarrassed to finish it.....she say NOW HE GET BACK UP...........goes back into the garage......and tries to finish vacuuming up the water!!!!! NOW after the 2nd hit......she has to take him to E.R.....))))))))))
 

Billct2

Active Member
I actually went to sign school, Butera in Boston. A whole school year of practicing the basics and then I went to work for the guy that got me into it.
One thing about waxing nostalgic about those and another to remeber some of the realities.
I had shocards I had to do for groups that had charity
auctions, endless lines of text describing the prizes, painting multi color stripes where you had to really plan so you could keep out of the wet edge, developers boards with every contractor involved in 1" block.
And as for recognizing other painters work there were a few guys around here that had three letter styles, 5 cans of one shot and two standrad layouts that went on evrything, not hard to tell who did those.
 

Jeff

New Member
And as for recognizing other painters work there were a few guys around here that had three letter styles, 5 cans of one shot and two standrad layouts that went on evrything, not hard to tell who did those.

There is a guy near us that definitely bought imitation gold by the gallons. I seriously can't recall ever seeing a sign he painted that didn't have imitation gold on it. Most were heavy with it! I believe he was addicted!

Now that he does printing / computer work he is addicted to distorts / gradient fills / multiple, multiple, multiple fonts on one sign.
 

OldPaint

New Member
i posted this pic here on another thread.....but since we are doing "old school" in this pic.....the windows on the bar are the work of the guy who got me started in this ....i was 10-12 years old when he painted them. the pic is later then 65...as the car is a 1965 chrysler 300)))) the lettering was done late 50's...
 

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