Possible TR2 ink issue?? Not sure. Looking for Suggestions.

[Manuel Upton]

So, we are using a VG640 and ever since we changed to TR2 inks we are having bubbling issues when printing on 3M 40c-114R clear(only because my supplier was out of Arlon 4500 clear) laminated with Arlon3170 using the generic backlit Roland profile high quality setting, overprint set to 2 and sticking to polycarb. The bubbles only happen in the printed areas and not until the sign is exposed to heat. First time was back in March(Pizza photo), got a complaint a couple weeks after install. My supplier told me we may need to let the poly outgas longer. (I've never had to before), but on the next job we allowed the poly to outgas for a week after removing the liner. Installed that job in April ,sat in shop at least a week before faces were installed yesterday went to check it because of all the other issues and same thing. (Eastside Market photo) Looked great when faces were installed. Printed 4 more faces last week, let those outgas for the normal 2 days before laminating, poly outgassed for 3-4 days. Bank sign(24 Hour photo), installed vinyl on Thursday last week, sat on trailer inside shop til Monday. Looked fine before it left. Covered with a blanket 85-90 degree day 2 hour travel to site, uncover to giant green blisters. SMH We've been printing on clear with these settings for years with no issues til the inks changed. I'm about to do some tests using the same settings but sticking to different substrates. Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Vinyl Monkeys]

I am having a huge issue with this right now. Same problem! I have 150yrds of signage printed. Now that it is getting nice and the sun is out. pretty much all have failed!!!! All!! Customers are pissed and contracters are dropping me and it has literally destroyed my business. have not heard back from 3m

 

[stickerhed]

I have the same problem. 4 faces printed on IJ 40c. Epson ecosol inks. We’re in the process of doing them over with different vinyl.

 

[Manuel Upton]

From what I've been told by 3M and other vinyl manufacturers is that the plastic needs to be "baked" at a certain temp and for a certain length of time. I can't remember off hand but who's going to do that anyway? We've switched back to Arlon 4500 clear and have had no issues since. I believe it had something to do with the 3M 40c-114R being airfree. The Arlon is not. I hope this helps!!

 

[stickerhed]

From what I've been told by 3M and other vinyl manufacturers is that the plastic needs to be "baked" at a certain temp and for a certain length of time. I can't remember off hand but who's going to do that anyway? We've switched back to Arlon 4500 clear and have had no issues since. I believe it had something to do with the 3M 40c-114R being airfree. The Arlon is not. I hope this helps!!

Thanks, I recently bought Briteline translucent white and clear to try. Both are cast, I hope it works.

 

[weyandsign]

According to Grimco, they said you just need to peel the liner and leave it air out overnight. I use briteline translucent with briteline wrapcast laminate and never had this problem. Also, I think you should be venting your signs. Put some louvers or something on there.

 

[Manuel Upton]

I was told that also by our Poly distributor. We let it air out for a week before we installed vinyl after peeling the liner and still had the same problem. I really think it's an air release vinyl issue. (I don't believe the Briteline is air release). We did some tests on old scrap pieces of poly here at our shop that hadn't had a liner on it for months, did a side by side test of the 3M with air release and the Arlon 4500 clear, left the vinyl on for a week, then put it out in the sun and within a half hour the 3M started to bulb and the Arlon did not.

 

[stickerhed]

I was told that also by our Poly distributor. We let it air out for a week before we installed vinyl after peeling the liner and still had the same problem. I really think it's an air release vinyl issue. (I don't believe the Briteline is air release). We did some tests on old scrap pieces of poly here at our shop that hadn't had a liner on it for months, did a side by side test of the 3M with air release and the Arlon 4500 clear, left the vinyl on for a week, then put it out in the sun and within a half hour the 3M started to bulb and the Arlon did not.

Ours were old faces that sat in our shop for a couple of weeks before we applied the vinyl. So our problem had nothing to do with the plastic outgassing.

 

[unmateria]

Always look for roll manufacturing date and expect those problems with >18-24 months. Some brands works better passed that time (arlon, metamark...) and some works really bad (for me usually avery, 3m and specially oracal). And yes, Arlon 4500 is one of those really good products that outperforms their datasheet by far.