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Potentially being sued

sinclairgraphics1

sinclairgraphics1

Sinclair Graphics & Installations
So, here's my dilemma. We installed wallpaper for a client in their salon that they provided to us. They ordered it from a company in the UK. Material was garbage, as soon as the glue would touch it or any moisture, it would shrink up. It was extremely thin as well. So it didn't line up very well at all but my guys got it up on the wall. So, we got a hold of the print company, and they agreed to send us new wallpaper, free of charge. To me, that was a red flag that this happens with their product a lot. So the new wall paper arrives, and it lines up better, but still not perfect. We opted to apply directly over the old wall paper so as to not have tons of time removing and patching the wall. We have done this before and not had any issues. The next day, it all falls down. So now the client and the wallpaper company are completely blaming us. The client has requested their money back, to which I said fine. I also said, if you can let us print a similar design, on our own material I'll install it free and just charge you for the material. Nope, this wasn't good enough for them. He now want's me to pay for the new material that they are ordering as the print vendor is not going to cover the cost this time. This is where I draw the line. I will not pay for their material and when he asks me again, I'm going to tell him he can take me to court. In all my 20 years of being the sign business, I've never been in a situation like this. I feel like their case would not stand up at all. We agreed to install their product they provided and nothing else. I have gone above and beyond to help them. Suggestions on how to handle the next step?
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Tell them to pound sand and take it to court. 99% chance that doesn't happen. Tell them you will charge them for the second install too.

By the way, I dont think I liked the idea of you applying over the old material. When something messes up I can just rip the vinyl off and start over, not sure about your wallpaper situation though.
 
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ikarasu

Active Member
Removing wallpaper is a pain without the right tools.

Personally I would have bought a cheap $10 bucket of paste and used that to put it up. Pre-pasted wallpaper isnt always good... especially if its old stock. turns out theirs wasnt good.... No harm in re-pasting it with real stuff before putting it up, and you'd be less likely to have an issue. Of course after the first time you were probably tired and just wanted it done. But as mentioned... never go overtop of a failed install, it just increases the chances of that install failing.
 
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iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
Way too many variables here; if it’s not our materials, we don’t offer a warranty as we can’t guarantee the materials used are any good and can’t even go back to the supplier to resolve any issues.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
The key here is how much money are we talking for materials? Some things are not worth the battle. Try to offer to split it first. By rights, you did the same thing twice expecting a different outcome.
Being devils advocate here, this isn't that company's first rodeo making wall coverings. Is it possible that the blame could be on you? Did you do any adhesion tests beforehand?
 
P

player

New Member
brycesteiner said:
The mistake was using material that wasn't yours to begin with.
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That's not necessary true. There are lots of sign guys / shops that do installs using supplied materials. I have been asked by construction companies building corporate structures to install supplied materials. They are usually high quality though. The last one was applying a ton of 3M frosted glass material all over a bank they were building.
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
I doubt very seriously this goes any further, just chalk this up as "I should have known better." IMO people that truely will sue someone will not announce it. I think the product was crap to begin with BUT as life goes, "You touched it and now its your fault"
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
My question would be, did you and your customer sign any paperwork, regarding the work to be furnished ?? If so, did your part make mention you were to use someone else's material ?? Also, did you claim you'd get the job finished ?? Did you receive payment ?? These are questions that could come up, if things got nasty. Basically, you did not perform your part of the bargain, and you accepted the faulty material....... twice. It would seem to me, if you tried twice and failed twice, you could be the common denominator That does not mean, it was possible with their material, it just means you couldn't do it, but tried, without refusing faulty material.
 
neutrinocv

neutrinocv

New Member
As Gino said; it's all in the paperwork and signed agreements made before you started installing. You should've a waiver discharging you "somehow" for using supplied unbranded/unknown material. Such disclaimers are vital on being agreed upon when having to work with someone else materials and/or staff.

I don't know the extent of your prework signed agreements but if all that you say was asked or proposed verbally I would not worry about it too much.
 
sinclairgraphics1

sinclairgraphics1

Sinclair Graphics & Installations
ikarasu said:
Removing wallpaper is a pain without the right tools.

Personally I would have bought a cheap $10 bucket of paste and used that to put it up. Pre-pasted wallpaper isnt always good... especially if its old stock. turns out theirs wasnt good.... No harm in re-pasting it with real stuff before putting it up, and you'd be less likely to have an issue. Of course after the first time you were probably tired and just wanted it done. But as mentioned... never go overtop of a failed install, it just increases the chances of that install failing.
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Yes, this was no pre-pasted. We used a bucket of glue from Sherwin Williams to apply it. Yes, that was definitely a no-no that my installers went right over the old but we didn't want any more time in it than we had and now it's biting us.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
Agree, not removing the old material will be the issue that costs you if it goes as far as a suit.
When we install supplied materials I always put a "not responsible" note in the proposal.
 
sinclairgraphics1

sinclairgraphics1

Sinclair Graphics & Installations
Gino said:
My question would be, did you and your customer sign any paperwork, regarding the work to be furnished ?? If so, did your part make mention you were to use someone else's material ?? Also, did you claim you'd get the job finished ?? Did you receive payment ?? These are questions that could come up, if things got nasty. Basically, you did not perform your part of the bargain, and you accepted the faulty material....... twice. It would seem to me, if you tried twice and failed twice, you could be the common denominator That does not mean, it was possible with their material, it just means you couldn't do it, but tried, without refusing faulty material.
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We use customer supplied material all the time. Never have had issues like this. We did get payment for the first time around. The other times we went back no, we did not. I try to be fair with everyone I do business with and I understand it was our fault for going over the existing material. So we have agreed to remove the wallpaper and patch the wall area and refund them. I will not pay for their material. I'll provide my own to them at cost. They didn't want to do that so I'm done.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
sinclairgraphics1 said:
We are fixing the problem. We're removing all of it for them and patching the wall. You man up and read the whole post before you talk.
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You messed up the installation of their material once. Then messed it up a second time because you said you had too much time in it already and did not want to remove your first screw up. You said you will not pay for the material that you screwed up and that they can sue you. Perhaps you should go read what you wrote again.
 
sinclairgraphics1

sinclairgraphics1

Sinclair Graphics & Installations
Perhaps you are trying to be a jerk behind your computer because that's what weak people do. We are removing all of the wall paper and patching the wall. I'm refunding them as well.
 
Stacey K

Stacey K

I like making signs
Just curious if you hang a lot of wallpaper? My grandparents owned a decorating business, I've always used paste even if it claims it's pre-pasted - you really have to use paste. I've removed plenty of wallpaper in my life and many times it's more than one layer. It's not uncommon. Can you salvage the fallen wallpaper and use paste to reapply? Sorry, I think most professional decorators would use paste even on pre-pasted.
 
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