Need Help Pricing various CNC items

[CropMarks]

Hello, I've been searching the forums and haven't found anything regarding pricing for CNC products and services. I finally built a CNC machine that we've used to cut certain shapes out of wood and plastics that we print onto with our UV flatbed printer after they are cut. Example... these thin styrene cupcake signs that our customer has all their flavors printed onto. Specialty cut yard signs.... etc...

How are things priced out??? by quantitiy? complexity? Square foot or inches? I've searched here and through the signcraft price guides and haven't found much to go on. So far all I've been doing is guessing... "hmmm... how much would I be willing to pay for that???".

Any pointing in the right direction would be most helpful. Just let me know what things you need to help clarify what I'm asking about. Attached are a couple of things that are typical of what I've done with my CNC machine (see jpg i've attached)

Thank you very much... Miked.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Generally, most people charge by time or linear inches (or feet) for CNC.

Some people charge by the sheet for X amount of cuts, then start adding on for additional cuts. Just depends. It's kind of all over the place, to be honest.

Figure out your operating costs (if you don't already know them) and then apply that to your chosen pricing method.

 

[CropMarks]

Thank you very much for the reply!... I appreciate it. Trying to figure out pricing has been the most insane part of this business. Even after 9 years I'm still wondering. I know it must depend like your saying on X amount of cuts + additional cuts (which would be the complexity I guess) The more time the shape takes to cut, the more that should be charged. I've gone back and tried to look at what a place in town has charged me for just CNC work with 6mm pvc and even their price is all over the place. It's not like it's based of square footage..... I just can't seem to break their "code" of how they arrive at their final price???

What I have been doing is my square footage price for printing... then add on a "labor charge" based on my shop rate (which is around $85 per hour)... then if the price seems crazy afterwards I tweak it. But that makes it hard to be consistent.

Thanks again... any other help with this is appreciated!
Miked.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Does your software tell you the linear cutting length? if so you can figure out your cut time from that and quote based on your shop + machine hourly rate.

 

[Gino]

Since in this kinda application, you can have so many variables, why not figure out your costs based on quarter sheet usage, then a cutting/routing time for the various materials as some finish faster than others. Some have a small cleaning up cost factor afterwards and so on. The complexity will be figured by your established hourly rate, while the substrate cost will be fixed, according to how it cuts and and what it costs you. Then, add whatever overhead and other hidden factors you would to any other kinda job. At the end after your profit has been figured in, don't forget to add the slop factor for those things which go wrong..... and it happens.

 

[CropMarks]

Super good points... I did find another CNC routing forum that asked a similar questions... They are all saying about the same as what you all are saying above. The time it takes... + the other costs (bits, waste, etc...)

I guess I'm going to look up how to get the time estimation for cutting. I'm using Mach3 for the software that runs the actual code to the machine. So... I will go and look up how to find that as a next step.

Thanks! for the replies!

 

[CropMarks]

Ah!... found where to estimate the run time based on current settings in Mach3. I'm going to go and think about what other things are involved... how long bits last, etc....

Also, if anyone is wondering... I'm really surprised at how well this Zenbot CNC machine has worked. instructions were a little lackluster but I was able to get the thing together and make it do some simple stuff. The quality of the machine is actually really solid. I think I paid around $5-$6K altogether for my 4x8 (software, parts, etc...). I know nothing about the CNC world, but it's like all the other things I get myself into.... want to figure out something... figure it out... then have to figure out the actual details. Ha!...

Thanks again!
Miked.

 

[Jean Shimp]

We are working on Excel sheets for estimating CNC pricing. We have one section for out of pocket and material costs and one section for labor. We add a default amount of $5 for the bit cost on every quote. The sheets are complex in that we have drop down menus for types of routing (textured or smooth), complexity levels, tool pathing, etc. CNC times vary greatly according to materials being cut and the complexity of the files. A lot of the information on the sheets is automatically filled in from tables we set up. I've been recording various job times for a couple of years and use this info to plug into the tables. This has been a time consuming process that was started about 2 years ago. But the payoff is worth it. Try as I might though we always get these one of a kind jobs that never seem to fit any mold. Our system still needs a lot of work but it's much better than pulling numbers off the top of my head. I'm open to suggestions, estimating is my least enjoyable task and it seems like nowadays we do more of it than ever before.

 

[LarryB]

I typically charge $95/hour plus cost of bits. If it is a big job I give them my hourly rate and let them know bits are around $40/ea. It has worked out well. Usually while the machine is running, my guy can be doing other jobs around the shop.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Chocolate is spelled wrong on the puppy chow sign.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Definitely account for cleanup. Sometimes cleaning up the mess takes more time than the actual routing.

 

[CropMarks]

Chocolate is spelled wrong on the puppy chow sign.

yeah... that is why that one didn't make it out of the shop... ha!... thanks!

 

[CropMarks]

thank you everyone for the help on this! I do appreciate it! All those variables... waste, time, overhead, EVERYTHING has to be thought of... Any other suggestions feel free to share!

 

[CropMarks]

We are working on Excel sheets for estimating CNC pricing. We have one section for out of pocket and material costs and one section for labor. We add a default amount of $5 for the bit cost on every quote. The sheets are complex in that we have drop down menus for types of routing (textured or smooth), complexity levels, tool pathing, etc. CNC times vary greatly according to materials being cut and the complexity of the files. A lot of the information on the sheets is automatically filled in from tables we set up. I've been recording various job times for a couple of years and use this info to plug into the tables. This has been a time consuming process that was started about 2 years ago. But the payoff is worth it. Try as I might though we always get these one of a kind jobs that never seem to fit any mold. Our system still needs a lot of work but it's much better than pulling numbers off the top of my head. I'm open to suggestions, estimating is my least enjoyable task and it seems like nowadays we do more of it than ever before.

I understand you completely when it comes to the "one off jobs that never seem to fit any mold".... As soon as you think you have a handle on something, one of these one off jobs come by and throws a wrench into everything! ---- I like the $5 per job for bits... that would seem to cover costs in that department. Some jobs are bigger than others and will have more wear and tear.

 

[rossmosh]

I have a script in Illustrator that takes the linear inches of the item and then uses that times a factor to spit out a cost based on material thickness/type.

I should add the biggest thing under estimated is setup time/time between sheets. Sticking the material on the bed, screwing it in place (which may not be necessary based on your setup but it's often a good idea), setting up your tool paths, putting in the right tool, zeroing the tool, running the job, unloading the sheet, and cleaning the table for the next job adds a good bit of time.

 

[CropMarks]

I have a script in Illustrator that takes the linear inches of the item and then uses that times a factor to spit out a cost based on material thickness/type.

I should add the biggest thing under estimated is setup time/time between sheets. Sticking the material on the bed, screwing it in place (which may not be necessary based on your setup but it's often a good idea), setting up your tool paths, putting in the right tool, zeroing the tool, running the job, unloading the sheet, and cleaning the table for the next job adds a good bit of time.

Yes... I'm thinking about the 124 cupcake shapes that I cut out of thin 1mm pvc and the time between sheets was a big factor.

 

[blufftonsignguy]

I am purchasing my first cnc also and was questioning the exact same thing. I am glad you posted before me so I get to read all of these good comments. My question to one of your responses is, you would charge a rate for the machine usage with an hourly rate on top of that to give you a final rate/price? Just for general simple cutting etc I was thinking just a flat rate for the time use of the machine. Obviously that would cover an hourly rate for an employee to set everything up and run it. All new to me so trying to figure things out myself!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

We charge cut time times machine rate + shop rate, and add consumables on non standard jobs as our machine rate includes 10 bits per month for standard cutting.

 

[CropMarks]

I am purchasing my first cnc also and was questioning the exact same thing. I am glad you posted before me so I get to read all of these good comments. My question to one of your responses is, you would charge a rate for the machine usage with an hourly rate on top of that to give you a final rate/price? Just for general simple cutting etc I was thinking just a flat rate for the time use of the machine. Obviously that would cover an hourly rate for an employee to set everything up and run it. All new to me so trying to figure things out myself!

I am crazy busy right now... but I will post later on today or tonight what I finally came up with as far as pricing... thanks to everyone for the help and patients with me! Miked.

 

[printhog]

Yes... I'm thinking about the 124 cupcake shapes that I cut out of thin 1mm pvc and the time between sheets was a big factor.

If your cutting 1mm pvc sheet look into a roller die machine with a pin registered steel rule die.. that'd cut the pvc in about 15 seconds or less. I do 500 4mil decals in half an hour leisurely... I cut them 12 at a time - thats 12 layers of vinyl & backer or about .125". Die cuts bog down at more than 1/8" thick tho. 1mm pvc cuts like butter.

roller die machines are anywhere from $300 to $5000 on ebay. you can get manual or electric. dies are cheap.. 12"x12" with ejection padding, registration pins, and steel ramps cost me about $100-200 with two day production.

as for pricing cnc work, price so you can upgrade/replace your home built to a professional machine in a two year window. You should also price by adding the hourly rate of the new machine ON TOP of the regular shop rate. Its doing the work of an employee and you can do other work while it runs. (i charge $100/hr shop rate, $185/hr for flat cut, and $350 per hr for carving/sculpting, as there's more wear and tear on moving parts). I do this with all my machines.

I've liquidated equipment (for banks/trustees) of many shops that failed from not properly cost accounting for re-tooling and replacements. Not just the disposables like bits, but EVERY machine. They all are obsolete at 5 years or less. treat them for your pricing as a disposable and buy new from the reserves it creates.